PLEASE HELP ME! (page 2)

Woodsman

I was kind of like your husband as I left, not trusting anything unless it was an original. I bought alot of books on ebay to have the actual publication. As soon as I saw the truth in the older publications I realized it was not the apostates who were lying but the WTS. That opened the door for tremendous research and a full departure. Good luck. I wish my wife was as far along as your husband is.

moomanchu

My advice is go slow with the proof it takes a long time to get the roots of the watchtower out of your head. You made the an important step as a married couple; honestly talking about the watchtower, most jw couples don't do this. Be happy with your new ability to objectively and freely talk about the watchtower. It took me years to get all the jw cobwebs out of my head.

UNCLEAR

I appreciate all the advice.

Yes it is true I am becomind less UNCLEAR, when I did the math on 607 BCE it hit me like of bricks, I have been having doubts for a while but put them aside reasoning that Jehovah will take care of matters in his time as all witnesses do.

I think slowing down and not pushing my spouse is probably the best things for me right now just to relax and do lots of reading I don't have to make a decision today, it's just so hard to pretend and go to meeting. Tonight I just wanted to stand up and scream.

Dr Jekyll

Heres some pics I took in the British Museum that show the dates for the destruction of Jerusalem

Who will he believe, a bunch of old men in Brooklyn who get all their power on lies based on this date, or the archaeological experts at the British Museum of London ?

alt

Check_Your_Premises

Unclear,

I know you do... next time you feel that way, just remember that I am somewhere experiencing the exact same sensation. But this game takes patience.

There was a guy named here as amazing1914. He helped his family leave. He put his story on freeminds.org.

http://www.freeminds.org/psych/exithelp.htm

It is really tough, and takes alot of patience. But the reward is keeping your sanity AND your family intact. Another couple who would be good for you to talk to is Ithinkisee and his wife freedomlover. He is kind of a hero around here. He carefully maneuvered his wife out of the org, and we were here rivited and cheering him every step of the way. Now they are both free, and she is making headway with her family as well!

I know you are about to explode.

patience.

CYP

truth about the last days

Hi. The issue about the 607BCE date is straight forward. You could go in any bookshop for the reference such as an encyclopedia or reference book which they all do state the dates Get several books or get a scan from the public liburary at is a good place for information. If he asks about the 70YR captivity- hear is the info on this.

Nebuchadnezzar ruled in 605BCE. He took Judah in 587BCE on his 18th year of rulership. (605-18=587) Jer 32:1+2a. He destroyed the Temple in 586BCE, and removed all their belongings, including all of the items from the first Temple. The people started their 70YR captivity from 586BCE. Daris the Mede ruled in 522BCE. (Show him from recent WT) (586-522=64YRS) The SECOND Temple was finished and ALL their belongings were returned or replaced in the "sixth year" of Daris the Mede. Ezra 6:15. (64+6=70YRS) See also all of Ezra chapter 6.

By using the Bible and WT and other reference books all the details should be straight forward. Now, to get references on dates and prophices on anything, ther are some good websites that do quote as to what the publications had said. Just look up "Jehovahs Witnesses" on the web site and there are many there. Then you could visit any kingdom hall where their liburarys are- stocked up with older publications and these can be used. But first, speak to him about the 607BCE date, then he will feel less reluctent for you to do excelent research on other matters, such as the societys connection to Freemasons and hideing the fact that C.T.Russell was a 33 degree mason. The evidence is on page 88 of the "proclaimers" book which has a "cross and crown" on one side of the Watchtower and a Knights Templer suit on the other side. The "Goldern Age" is also from Freemason origon. On the "Paster Russells Sermons" is the God Ra with wings. Also is the "Chart of the Ages" map that all brothers had predictions that came from the Great Pryimid of Giza. The one predition is shown on page 135, where it says that "End of world in 1914", where Russell belived that the 1000YR reign was to commence in Oct of 1914, with Armegeddon to happen a few months before Oct 1914- including the first ressurection. Even on page 163, it says that "Millions Now Will Never Die" dated Sept 5 1922. Millions have died since that time. And check out on page 201, where on the "Manna" book, the SAME symbol that the UN uses- a laural reed growing each side of the words. This is also a Freemason sign still used today. There is a much clearer picture of the "cross and crown" as the brothers had to wear badges of the symbol. Check out all that you can about Freemasons on the website and compare. as Freemasons are really saten worshippers. Through reserch will also show us that the main british Lodge of Freemasons also uses the "watchtower" sign, which is on every book and mag and letterhead printed.We should not have ANY sign to show that we worship an invisable God.

bob1999

This web site has a lot of scans of the original WTS publications.

http://www.jwfiles.com/index.htm

truckerann

I know this has nothing to do with helping UNCLEAR, but I remember when I was studying and the sister, who studied with me thought that I was such an idiot because I couldn't understand the dates and it was clear as mud...and if I questioned her ....the response was always because "that is was the Governing Body says"....I hate to think about dates because the Bible clearly says, "no one knows the date not even the Son, only the Father.." so why even worry about dates...was always my question

KW13

The Society do tours in the British Musuem so get stuff from there, encyclopedias like Britannica, encarta e.t.c....just go to the website and search on there, society's stuff.

Oroborus21

Howdy Unclear:

I don't think the approach regarding DATE/End-time Prophecy will be convincing. The fact is that the Society/Russell/Rutherford/Franz/JWs et al. have never actually specified a day, month or year and definitely said the end would occur then - in the manner of say the Millerites - just as your husband states.

Barbour-Russell/Bible Students & Rutherford/JWs, being one branch of Millerite-style Second Adventism, it was and is inevitable that there were statements of expectation, statements of hope and sometimes statements of irrational exuberence made as the foundation of the theology is an expectation of the Second Coming (Advent) of Christ Jesus. But having learned the lesson of the Great Disappointment, definite date-setting has been carefully avoided.

All of the quotations provided by others or which may be found, are very careful circumlocutions that avoid specific date setting while attempting to maximize enthusiasm. They have allowed the faithful to reach their own conclusions based upon the statements of the leadership, without the leadership having to take responsibility for those statements or being pinned down to particulars.

For example, the reference in the Awake! magazine's "statement of purpose" that used to appear inside the magazine prior to the Generation Doctrine change to the "Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away" is understood to imply that the end would come during that generation's lifetime. Yet, there was never any specific date and time adopted.

Likewise, it is well known that the view of Russel and the Bible Students was that (skipping the previous years also speculated about) that 1914 would be the end of the Gentile Times and system of things and the beginning of the Millennial Rule - and that its meaning was essentially flipped by Rutherford with the publication of the Birth of a Nation article.

The problem again is that quotation after quotation, no matter how suggestive it may be or even reflective of what the author(s) and the faithful actually believed at the time, can be dismissed today as nothing more than human speculation since they were careful not to be definite about a day & year. Even Russell's famous annoucement to the Bethel family that the Gentile Times had ended did not specify the consequences of such.

So JWs will always have an out with regards to these quotations and the evidence that you may provide, no matter how unreasonable the explanation.

The bottom line is that the statements/quotations regarding End-Time predictions are statements of religious belief which are explainable (especially when operating under the New Light Principle as JWs do) and also difficult to challenge on a factual basis.

In my opinion, since your husband has expressed a willingness to consider the evidence regarding the 607 date, if I were you what I would do is challenge him to find any non-JW source which supports that date for the destruction of Jersusalem. If you can get him to begin to do his own research it will not take very long for him to encounter reference after reference, scholar after scholar, and source after source which universally cite the 587 BC date for the destruction of Jerusalem.

I think that pretty soon your husband would have to start asking why in this matter of fact (as opposed to religious/prophetic belief) are JWs/the Society so obviously deviate from the rest of the world.

In this sense, it is like if the rest of world agreed and believed that the boiling point of water at sea level was 100 degrees Celsius but the Society/JWs insisted that it was only 80 degrees Celsius. Or maybe since we are dealing with historical record, it would be more like if all the world agreed that the American Revolution began in 1776 but the Society insisted that it began in 1732.

The point is that one can argue in matters of faith and not be convinced but arguing in the face of cold facts is much more difficult. Get your husband to research the 607 date and you may be on your way to convincing him that the Society is wrong about a number of things.

-Eduardo

PLEASE HELP ME!

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