Crisis of Conscience (page 4)

Gadget

Ray remained a member of the GB even though he lived it and saw first hand all their hypocrisy! He lived through it all yet he did not leave the Organization. Think about that!

Very good point.

According to Franz by far most of the JW literature is prepared by the non anointed JWs and for me that completely blows the myth of the FDS, there are so many supposedly anointed JWs around the world and they use non anointed to prepare the spiritual food. Why? Because they know and trust them, they will not rock the boat.

ballistic

Ray remained a member of the GB even though he lived it and saw first hand all their hypocrisy!

I'm sure most of us lived it and saw first hand the hypocracy. You're suggesting he left without experiencing these thing? or maybe god appeared to him in a vision and told him to leave?

greendawn

Why did Franz stay in? Perhaps he had no other choice having served this org for a lifetime he had nowhere else to go. So he stayed in until he was expelled. His uncle after all was the most influential figure in the WTS.

zagor

Haven't read it, (just ordered it through library's inter-loan system) but can't wait to lay my hands on it.

Personally, (and I realize this might sound stupid to some) if he were telling lies against them they would have found a legal way to shut him up just like they are doing with some websites around. From what I'm hearing what he is talking about in a book is highly sensitive material. if he was making it up wtbs could (and probably would) sue him for every penny that he is worth. But they never pursued it, have they?

That alone is reason enough for me to look at the book seriously.

seek2find

I Read it during the winter of 1995-1996, keeping it hid and reading little bits at a time. Actualy my curosity was raised by postings I had seen on the Old Prodigy Bulletin boards. One post was from a Woman named Margie and she stated that if a person could read COC and remain a witness they would be a pretty good witness. Well, 10 years latter I'm still a witness technicaly speaking. But she was right, because I know longer beleive it's the truth. Regardless of what a persons oppinion of Ray is, the real issue is if it,(what he says)is true or false? Much of what he says is not able to be said to be false, because its well documented. So what does that mean? My sumation of it is this. Ray is a man like me with his on set of weaknesses and problems, he didn't try to deny that. He admited he was wrong and should have stood up for what was right sooner. I think Ray should at least be commended for being respectfull at the same time as being truthfull. He could have taken the low road and slammed everyone and everybody he ever knew and fostered a hatred of anybody or anything witness related, but he didn't do that. If your going to read it because you've already formed a hatred for the Orginazation I'd recomend skipping it and reading a good novel instead. But if you are still wanting to worship God and are having diffuculty copping with some of the things you see that don't seem right then I think it would be good to read. When the book is read, I think the reader would do well to focus on the big picture, and that is that God doesn't want people to worship him through and orginazation, But only through his son. Putting faith in him. That's what it means to be a Christian. seek2find

bennyk

Ray remained a member of the GB even though he lived it and saw first hand all their hypocrisy! He lived through it all yet he did not leave the Organization.

Ray after leaving Bethel moved to Alabama and attended a JW congregation so faithfully that the body of elders there wanted to appoint him an elder in their congregation! He remained a faithful JW throughtout all the problems and all the hyprocrisy and anti-Christian behavior of the GB. He did not, as many who have read his books did, leave on his own because of some "crisis of conscience" but rather he needed to be thrown out ...... then his crisis came.....

I asked Ray about this. He responded that the situation at Bethel had moved too quickly for him to have had sufficient time to explain personally to his many friends his own views, and so he was essentially buying time to help his friends while he could, before they would feel it impossible to speak with him. He noted that his comments at the meetings at Gadsen were simply to quote appropriate scriptures in the hope that others might see the discrepancies between the Bible and official WTS dogma. Likewise in Field Service, his aim was not to place Watchtower literature, but to encourage people to look to the Bible as an Authority.

I found this a reasonable response because I also remained a member in good standing (i.e. did not leave) for a considerable period of time after coming to the conclusion that the WTS is emphatically NOT the "one true Faith", and for much the same reason as did Ray. There were certainly many others in the past who did likewise; there are still many who have not yet left in order to assist their relatives and friends.

Boxed elder bugs

Currently half way through CC, served at Bethel and remember Ray from the seventies, not wierd like his uncle, he and Dan Sidlick were the coolest GBers, Knorr was the toughest. Don't dare give this book to my 93 year old JW dad, not that he would read it if I did, but this fills in the gaps of things I felt but could not prove.

Apostate Kate

On page 296 of C of C, you will see that Ray was on a leave of absence when the Inquisitions started. Up to this point he had shared his thoughts with several people in casual conversations. He was not the only one who was discussing dates and such.

My opinion of the book so far is that he truly wanted to believe he was in the truth, had selflessly gave himself up to serve. He wrote honestly about his feelings. On page 304 he was first told that his name came up during the Inquisition into apostasy.

By page 314 Ray confesses that he was an emotional wreck. Not just because of what they were doing to HIM, but what they were doing to his long time friends! He states that he was "in shock." Keep in mind that during this Ray did not know what even WE know now. He reflects on this on the very last page, 408. He wishes he had found out maybe a decade earlier so that it would not be so hard to start over again. He wrote that he is 84 now.

Whoever accused him of staying in after he found out truths about dates is full of it. This was a slow process for him, just like most of us went through.

"Life is a journey, and we cannot make progress in it if our focus is mainly on where we have been; that could lead to emotional inertia or even spiritual decline. What is done is done."~Ray Franze

Crisis of Conscience

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