Crisis of Conscience (page 3)

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I ordered the books! Can't wait to get them in the mail!

Good Girl or Bad Girl?

Sorry if this was already covered; I didn't see it in any of the posts but may have missed it: is the 4th edition the most recent one?

Thanks,

GG

DanTheMan

is the 4th edition the most recent one?

y

Apostate Kate

I could never relate to someone who read the book and stayed faithful to the mother borg. The way the GB treated people are not the leaders I would ever follow. It is clear that the GB are followers of followers. Russel followed the Millerites, Rutherford followed Russel and then some. There never was any truth involved, just a group of macho special so called annointed men holding on to a cult's traditions.

I'm glad Ray had the bravery to tell it like it is. He contributed, paid his dues. Whether or not he got involved with any other x JW groups is his business. I'm sure he battled his own demons. Last I heard he is in his 90s, sharp as tacks, and still taking calls. Thank you Ray.

If anyone needs a copy of CofC and can't spare the cost PM me.

delilah

I too, recently read the CoC book, and was amazed at how the society is really run. I never once thought about it, when I was a "true follower". After reading the book, it is somewhat like "The wizard of Oz"....behing that great big booming voice, sits a little man, directing the whole show, instilling the fear of God into the hearts and minds of the sheep who blindly follow, and who dare not ask any questions.

I remember writing letters to the government officials in Malawi, when I was a kid,begging them to stop the insanity and slaughter, and to find out that it could all have been avoided, really sickened me, and made me angry. Too many people suffered and died needlessly....just because one person felt it was wrong for them to buy a party card.

This is a man-made organization, who follow men, not God. I could never go back now, knowing what I know. There are those who argue that we're only reading Ray Franz's side of the story. Well, you already know the WT's side of the story, how many sides to a story are there? The WT covers up everything, and makes excuses,and lies, Ray lays it on the line, tells it like it was. What more do you need to know, or see, in order to believe?

Apostate Kate

I remember being told that 1975 never happened by my so called "friend" the elders wife in the late 80's. I thought, ok, it never happened. I never read; "Then is Finished the Mystery of God". I never seen the world timeline in that book end in 1975. I never heard the talks at Dodgers Stadium state why we looked forward to 1975. I never read the Theocratic Ministry School pamphlet telling me how awesome it was that people were dropping out of school and selling their homes. I never dropped out of school before 1975. All my friends did not drop out of school. My best friends did not sell their home and take off to Guatamala to spead the good news before Armageddon hit. I never heard the talks about how we must use our time before 1975 wisely. I never heard it at the conventions. And, the elders never came to my house to counsel my mom for telling a "sister" she thought it would be nice to marry a nice JW man so close to Armageddon. None of it eveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaappened.....oh and Bonnie BeXXXXX the elders wife did not put off having a child until she was way past her prime because she did not want the baby to suffer during Armageddon. Oh yeah and the congo did not look down on my sister for having children so close to 1975. Nope, it never happened. Oh but wait, they made some kind of weak apology for it all didn't they after they blamed us?

The GB were the voice of Jehovah? But they made mistakes?

The God I now worship, the God of the Bible, does not jerk anyone around.

Ray tells it like it happened, all the gory details. All the GB have done is lie, twist, and follow. They have no spine. Edited to remove Bonnies last name. What was I thinking. Even though she made the cover of the Awake years later when she gave up on Armageddon and got pregnant and almost died. Oh yeah she was MARTYRED for it because she was too old and almost died.

inquirer

Hey DOZY IT DID HAPPEN! ARE YOU CRAZY!!!!

the Ten Words/Commandments!

Gentile Times Reconsidered book. You read that book. You understand both Ray and
Carl are not lying -- why in God's world would you not think so? He talks about
that Greek woman being stalked in Christian Freedom -- who puts up a newspaper
clipping of it. IT'S TRUE ALRIGHT.

WTS makes too much of his theories (even though I disagree with Ray over this.)

him $5,000, etc, etc, etc.

the early 1930's!

before the WTS brought out their Proclaimers of God's Kingdom book.

Guardian Newspaper when they discovered the WTS was in bed with the UN --
Strange Bed Fellowers (there's an Aussie movie with the same name, but a totally
different subject.

would have a Crisis of Conscience and would want my Christian Freedom again!

http://www.e-watchman.com/watchtower-jehovahs-witnesses-un-ngo-truth.html
... well you need a labotomy!

IW

****Is it possible for anyone to remain a JW after reading this?****

Good question. Ray remained a member of the GB even though he lived it and saw first hand all their hypocrisy! He lived through it all yet he did not leave the Organization. Think about that!

Dunlap got disfellowshipped but Ray did not leave the Organization!

Ray was put out of Bethel but he did not leave the Organization!

Yet, many who have read his books do leave. He did not but they do....why is that?

I know I risk being thrown off this DB for the above comments.

One thing I've learned since leaving the Witnesses and that is.... what's wrong with the witnesses is common to all, even exJW's,.....the desire to be right and be proven right at all costs is paramount ....even above the truth.

Oh...by the way....I do admire Ray Franz .....I just don't think he is right about everything all the time......

It's likely this post will be removed by those who, while declaring the glories of freedom of speech against the Watchtower, do not allow the same among themselves. lol

Island Woman

atypical

Well, I read your post so I guess it wasn't removed!

But I just want to say - Ray Franz never left the organization? Am I missing something here? Or do you mean he was put out before he left on his own? It seems to me he tried hard to make changes in the org rather than leave, but he was kicked out. Maybe I am wrong; I haven't finished the book yet.

IW

Atypical,

Ray stayed through everything....everything you read about in COC he saw and lived through and stayed. Dunlap got the shaft but Ray stayed.

The Governing Body only threw Ray out of Bethel.... they did not, at first, disfellowship him as they did Dunlap. Ray after leaving Bethel moved to Alabama and attended a JW congregation so faithfully that the body of elders there wanted to appoint him an elder in their congregation! He remained a faithful JW throughtout all the problems and all the hyprocrisy and anti-Christian behavior of the GB. He did not, as many who have read his books did, leave on his own because of some "crisis of conscience" but rather he needed to be thrown out ...... then his crisis came.....

I don't judge him for this, I'm only trying to put things in perspective.

Island Woman

Crisis of Conscience

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