For them to defend that date so stubbornly at a time that the whole world is against it, they must have some powerful motives to do this, that date they feel is very crucial for their organisation.
They have been saying for too long that the 1914 date which is based on the 607 date is the beginning of the end the last generation and they couldn't just change it as so much was done in its name.
Why all the fuss about 607 and 1914?
by rockhound 33 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
greendawn
-
Leolaia
One thing the Society could do is reverse Rutherford's lumping together of originally distinct events into 1914 (i.e. the end of the Gentile Times, the beginning of the "time of the end," the start of Christ's parousia, the date when God's kingdom began to rule, etc.) and move some of these to a later date. The prior existence of 1935 as an eschatologically significant date could help facilitate this change. I have long observed that if the Society lets go of the albatross that 607 BC has proven to be and adopt 587/6 BC, they will have a "biblical basis" for the 1935 date. Here is one way they could reshuffle their dates:
- The calculation of 1914 originally pertained only to the end of the "Gentile Times" and the calculation is based on an "exegesis" of Daniel 4 that has in view only the restoration of God's kingdom on the earth (after its domination by Gentile powers after the fall of Judah). The establishment of the kingdom on earth could easily be preceded by events in heaven, such as Christ becoming invisibly present, entering into his "temple", and beginning to rule in heaven. The end of the Gentile Times could thus be moved ahead to 1934 while other events could remain at 1914. Getting rid of the falsifiable 607 BC date would of course be one big advantage.
- The Society still finds it handy to point to events that occurred immediately after 1914 such as WWI and the Spanish Influenza as fulfillments of Matthew 24 (parr.). In that passage the disciples ask: "What is the sign of (1) your parousia and the (2) end of the system of things". The Society could still claim that the fulfillment of the "composite sign" from 1914 onward is evidence enough that Christ's parousia began in 1914. They would also be still able to refer to v. 45-51 as being fulfilled at this time as well, and thus maintain 1919 as the time when Christ selected the JWs as his faithful & discreet slave and earthly organization after returning (i.e. after beginning his parousia) in 1914. Thus, they would still have a "biblical basis" (note my scare quotes) for their doctrine about 1919.
- They Society could also draw attention to the fact that the disciples are asking about two seperate things in Matthew, (1) the parousia and (2) the end of the system of things. Jesus in reply first gives his disciples the "composite sign" that points to 1914. All of these are mentioned only as "the beginning of the birth pangs" (v. 8), implying that more was to follow which the Society could claim was fulfilled from 1934 onward. Verse 9 says that "they will hand you over to be persecuted and put to death," this would have been fulfilled in Nazi and mob persecution of JWs that began in earnest in 1934 and continued into the 1940s. Verse 10 would refer to apostates who desert the faith, and the Society could point out how much of a problem apostasy was in Rutherford's time (i.e. the "evil slave") and how it continues today. Verse 14 refers to the great preaching work that began in 1935, i.e. the commission to gather the "great crowd". This work must continue until "the end will come" (v. 14), i.e. the "end of the system of things". Finally, v. 15 refers to the setting up of the United Nations, which occurred in 1945. This is the "sign" mentioned in Matthew 24:15-16 that marks the final phase of the present system of things, for the UN will be the means through which Satan will bring about the Great Tribulation mentioned in v. 21-22, which will end with Armageddon.
- This chronology could then be supported with Revelation 12-13, slightly reinterpreted for the new view. The first step was the birth of the heavenly kingdom in 1914, represented by the birth of the child in heaven (v. 4-5), and while this was happening, the Dragon (Satan) flung a third of the stars from heaven to the earth (v. 4), which could correspond to the demonic activity and turmoil brought to the earth in 1914-1918, culminating in the prosecution of the Watchtower Society directors. Then the "woman" fled to the wilderness for 3 1/2 years which spanned from 1919 to 1921 (as the Society also presently claims). This was a period of refreshing and reorganization, and at the end of the period the organization came out of the wilderness to boldly condemn and expose Satan's organization. This enraged Satan, who also knew that the Gentile Times were due to end in 1934, and so he fought God's kingdom in heaven to prevent its establishment as a Theocracy on earth (v. 7). Satan failed in this attempt and was cast down to earth, and God's earthly organization was given another 3 1/2 year period of protection (i.e. 1930-1933), during which time they declared themselves to be Jehovah's witnesses (v. 13-16). But at the end of this period, Satan "went off to make war against the rest of her offspring, those who obey God's commandments and hold to the witness of Jesus" (v. 17), and this has reference to the increased persecution that began in the spring of 1933, both in Germany and then later in 1935 onward in the US as a result of the flag salute issue. Although Satan could persecute the "children" of the organization, he could not prevent the institution of the Theocracy which occurred in 1934 when God set up his kingdom on earth through the organization. It was in 1935 when the earthly subjects of this kingdom (i.e. the Great Crowd) were revealed and by 1938 the organization was declared to be the "Theocracy" (cf. the articles in the Watchtower of June 1 and 15, 1938). Satan continued his earthly "war" against the Theocracy, and the years 1938-1944 were the worst persecution the organization had ever faced before or since. What Satan did next is related in chapter 13 of Revelation: he established the scarlet beast on the earth in 1945, i.e. the United Nations, as a counterfeit organization with the false hope of "peace and security" that only God's kingdom could bring. The "end of the system of things" could not occur however until the Theocracy has had time to announce God's kingdom throughout the earth and gather together the earthly subjects of the kingdom.
- Such an interpretation of Revelation could be supported by their already-existing interpretation of Daniel. The Society claims that the 2,300 "days" of Daniel 8 refer to a time of intense persecution of God's earthly organization that began in 1938 (when the Watchtower articles of June 1 and 15, 1938 were published) and continued until 1944 (Daniel book, Chapter 10, p. 177).
Such an updating would thus build on present Watchtower teaching, remove some huge stumbling blocks (such as 607 BC as a meaningful date, and the embarrassing current interpretation of 1935 as "time when the anointed was sealed"), yet maintain 1914 as a marker for the "composite sign" of Christ's parousia. At the same time, it also is just as convoluted and confusing as the present teaching. There is also no clear indication of when the "Great Tribulation" and Armageddon would occur. The new "generation" teaching would simply mean in this schema that the gathered "Great Crowd" would continue to exist until the tribulation. I am not claiming that the Society would propose something like this, but such a scenario is one possibility out of many directions the Society could take their eschatology.
-
startingover
Rockhound, good one!
Auldsoul,
(5) In 1914, Jesus began a search and measuring of those claiming to be his servants. Apparently, he and his Father were playing a game of Hide and Seek, because he didn't already know the Channel that God was using at the time.
LMAO at that one. -
Hellrider
I have long observed that if the Society lets go of the albatross that 607 BC has proven to be and adopt 587/6 BC, they will have a "biblical basis" for the 1935 date.
I think they would have to wait a while before they do that. To all the old-timers, and to anyone over the age of...30, the mantra "1914", this "momentous date" has been so hammered in, that it can`t be just dropped over night. And even if they did, that would it accomplish? They have allready dropped the literal interpretation of "generation", and can`t just switch back to it, and even if they did, they would then face the "generation"-problem in ten years time anyways. Nope, I don`t think they will do that, 1935 isn`t drastic enough. And nothing "significant" happened in 1935 anyway, it`s a date derived from 1914 (not that any JWs would ever be able to think that thought, though). Nothing happened in 135. They should have changed it to 1957 (Sputnik) like R.Franz says they planned to. Nope, they`re stuck with 1914, I think, it won`t change in many years.
-
Clam
Good one Rockhound. How anyone takes these jokers seriously is now completely beyond me, and although I have plenty of immediate family in the so called truth I only see them as tragic robots that need a new type of salvation. Salvation from a man made farce which masquerades as a "spiritual paradise" and simply covers its ass while making tons of cash.
-
ellderwho
Whats amazing about this cult is the power they have over the minds of the R&F. If the Tower wanted to teach the Trinity as doctrine, they could absolutely pull it off. Thats scary!
-
garybuss
Like my dad told me, "Even if it was ALL wrong I'd still be a Witness. Being a Witness is a great way to live. I couldn't have had a better life.".
-
heathen
Yah but what about the WTBTS trinity of .. God , his word and organization . The organization keeps making itself out to be God, christ and holy spirit all wrapped up in one neat package . They also think they are the kingdom of the heavens , noahs ark and the way truth and light of the world .
-
Leolaia
I think they would have to wait a while before they do that. To all the old-timers, and to anyone over the age of...30, the mantra "1914", this "momentous date" has been so hammered in, that it can`t be just dropped over night. And even if they did, that would it accomplish? They have allready dropped the literal interpretation of "generation", and can`t just switch back to it, and even if they did, they would then face the "generation"-problem in ten years time anyways. Nope, I don`t think they will do that, 1935 isn`t drastic enough. And nothing "significant" happened in 1935 anyway, it`s a date derived from 1914 (not that any JWs would ever be able to think that thought, though). Nothing happened in 1935. They should have changed it to 1957 (Sputnik) like R.Franz says they planned to. Nope, they`re stuck with 1914, I think, it won`t change in many years.
Hi Hellrider....The point of my little demonstration was to suggest that the Society could try to "have their cake and eat it too". They could still retain 1914 while getting rid of 607 BC (since they can still use the "composite sign" as its basis), while at the same time providing a chronological basis for 1935. Nothing "significant" happened in 1935 in the world at large, but lots of significant things happened in 1934 and 1935 in the organization itself....e.g. the start of the worst persecution the JWs have ever faced and the beginning of the gathering of the "great crowd". The Society already claims that lots of organizationally-internal things are prophesied by the Bible. It takes only a small doctrinal change to claim that the gathering of the earthly subjects of God's kingdom occurred once Gentile domination over God's people ended. Since the chronological basis of 1914 relates only to the ending of the Gentile Times, the Society is not obliged to totally give up 1914 as a "pivotal" date in history if they attempt to replace 607 with 587 BC.
-
hamsterbait
Leo's post outlines exactly what happened in 1943. In a way. Originally the WT said Christs invisible presence began in 1874. End of Gentile times would come in 1914. Now IP in some new date or 1914, end of gentile times some new date.
The WTBTS has already laid the way for ditching any reference to chronology in their creed.There was a WT in the 90's (pre Generation I think) that said that since the events of 1914 to 1919 we are no longer living in times covered by chronology.
Gives them kind of Carte Blanche don't it?
I can bet who will find it!!!!!! I don't have the litterature anymore.
HB