My Sincere Apology and Condolences...

by AGuest 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  trevor

  Aguest

  What you say is true, it is not God that misleads us it is people. People who think they have been chosen as slaves and servants, somehow commissioned to spread the word, or in your case many thousands of words, on behalf of God. People seek God in their own way, they do not need educating or patronising. Calling everyone dear and wishing them peace does not disguise your intent.

  The Zen masters talk of listening to the sound of one hand. This eludes to the soundless sound that leads to enlightenment.

  Your posts give the impression that you are clapping loudly with both hands in an attempt to gain attention. Perhaps you have mistaken the noise for applause.
• 

  LDH

  Trevor--What is the intent since it is not disguised?

  Calling everyone dear and wishing them peace does not disguise your intent.
• 

  AuldSoul

  Trevor, there was something odd about your last post. I think I understand your point where Shelby is concerned. The outward show of piety seems to be "laid on" rather thickly, even though it may be 100% genuine.

  However, you stated two things that seem to contradict each other:

  People seek God in their own way, they do not need educating or patronising.

  The Zen masters talk of listening to the sound of one hand.

  Zen masters both teach and patronize, and your comment citing them as an authority seems both educational and patronizing of Shelby. Perhaps there is more to it than I perceived, could you elaborate a bit on this seeming conflict?

  Perhaps Shelby's posts are a means by which she seeks God, or seeks to help others to seek God. Perhaps it is her way of doing so. From her posts it seems to me that she is very much NOT a joiner, and would likely shoo anyone away who tried to follow her.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  anewme

  This "servant and slave in Christ" stuff still shows me you are stuck in holier than thou land buddy.
  
  Sorry, that's how I see it.
  
  Been there myself.
  
  But it is really freeing and refreshing to move on even from there and give up kissing up to God (because he doesnt care if you do or dont)
  
  You are still searching little grasshopper. Continue your search with humility.
  
  
  A truly great man is not one first in his own eyes. (old American Indian saying)
• 

  trevor

  LDH

  If you read my post again I think you will find the answer to your question but my reply below may clarify what i was saying. I do realize that as AGuest's friend you will disagree with me, but that's what friends are for.

  AuldSoul

  Maybe Zen masters do both ‘teach and patronize.’ I was just quoting one line which I felt was relevant and seemed, to me at least, to sum up the noise that AGuest makes on many posts.

  The intention was not to be educational and patronizing but downright critical of AGuest's apparent friendly approach, while at the same time attempting to discredit other posters. I have fresh in my mind her hostile and uncalled for attack, in the post ‘Dearest James Thomas.’

  This coupled with the content of various posts has left me under whelmed. I gain the impression that, like most slaves, Dearest Shelby is still in chains.

  Trevor

  A Free Man
• 

  AuldSoul

  Trevor,

  I agree with your assessment. I just don't know whether shaming a chained person for their chains makes any sense. I am more in favor of helping them analyze the chains for the weak spots and showing them how to free themselves. I also took an extremely dim view of Shelby's treatment of James Thomas and subsequent response to his defenders.

  I was particularly incensed that AGuest assumed that a non-response was permission to post the contents of a PM in direct violation of the forum rules and has apparently not been censured for this incredibly poor decision. On that thread, which I perceived as an attempt to defame, belittle, humiliate, demean, depreciate, demoralize, and sully James Thomas, AGuest wrote the following.

  The only things that are unspeakable, unmentionable… is that which is "unclean," and no, I don't mean profanity. I mean that which defames, belittles, humiliates, demeans, slanders, depreciates, kills (technically and or literally), demoralizes, and sullies another… deceitfully, maliciously, hatefully, unlovingly. THOSE things are what should be beyond the need to discuss.

  I believe this is rank hypocrisy in the context in which it appeared. However, I credit that it may have been unintentional.

  Of course, I also believe we are all constrained by something. No matter how free we believe we are. Some error prevents our seeing clearly no matter how connected or liberated we become. All of us are in a paradigm of some sort and, in my opinion, anyone who doesn't see their current paradigm (constraints) clearly cannot see how to make a new paradigm.

  It is at this point of self-satisfaction that people begin to try to convince others to become more like them, interact with others according to a specific set of personally allowable interactions, or adopt their view of things. Shelby has a box she lives in, she just doesn't acknowledge its existence.

  You have a box you live in, I have one, James Thomas has one. All of us have a box we live in. I will never encourage you to be like me, because I am still becoming what I will be. I hope I never stop becoming something else, so why would I want you to eventually become what I used to be?

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul (of the "Don't Get In My Box While I'm Building Myself a New One" class)
• 

  trevor

  AuldSoul

  Thanks for your comments. They were unexpected but welcome. I bear AGuest no ill will but I am human and sometimes need to speak up.

  As for boxes, I agree. I have a number of boxes that I move between whenever my comfort zone is threatened. It takes great courage to live entirely without illusion and I am not that brave. I have moments of enlightenment, then retreat into a safe box. Still we climb a stair every day!
• 

  LDH

  I would agree that constant self examination is in order.

  Regarding the remark about 'that's what friends are for'-- makes it appear as though I blindly accept whatever Shel says. I guess you haven't been on the boards long enough to know all of the times I have challenged and questioned her insight.

  Regarding the violation of forum rules and posting a PM, that was uncalled for without permission from the writer. HOWEVER. Within the past week I have 'busted' a moderator for violating some of those same rules. What's good for the goose.....

  2. Inciting hatred on the basis of race, religion, gender, nationality or sexuality or other personal characteristic.

  This is also a "forum rule" lest we forget that, too!

  I don't care to explore any religion. But you are free to have it in my presence as long as I don't hear words of hate. Shit, if you want to count split peas all day as your way to God, knock yourself out.

  Alcoholics Anonymous says something like "you should have a god of your own understanding" or something like that.
• 

  AuldSoul

  LDH

  Regarding the violation of forum rules and posting a PM, that was uncalled for without permission from the writer. HOWEVER. Within the past week I have 'busted' a moderator for violating some of those same rules. What's good for the goose.....

  No "however" about it, in my opinion. No one but Simon should have the authority to post anything from PMs (it is his forum and he can do whatever he wants). An Assistant doing it does not in any way excuse someone else doing it. It was uncalled for in both cases and I agree, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  AGuest

  I would like to respond to (or rather, ask a question about) AuldSong's comment that:

  AGuest assumed that a non-response was permission to post the contents of a PM in direct violation of the forum rules and has apparently not been censured for this incredibly poor decision.

  First, it seems to me that if someone wants to send a "personal message," to another and keep such private, they would respond when asked if it was okay not to. Be that as it may...

  While I truly do not understand the chagrin over this - if the questions were valid, then there should be no shame in presenting them - I will apologize, to you James Thomas, for stepping over any line - even though I did not know there was one - and to anyone else that was "offended." I do not need to be "right" in this matter and I have no problem saying, at least with regard to this matter, "Well, if you all say so..."

  But I also cannot find where I directly "violated" the forum "rules," although I have looked. Perhaps I have not looked in the right place, but here's what I found:

  Posting Guidelines
  To ensure all users feel safe and keen to participate, please avoid:

  1. Insulting, threatening or provoking language
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     This includes libel, condoning illegal activity and contempt of court (comments which might affect the outcome of an approaching court case). You may post a small amount of third party material, but please help us to avoid breaching copyright by naming its author and publication. We are unable to investigate all third party material, so where possible, please provide a link instead.
  5. Spamming
     Please don't add the same comment to more than one forum.
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     You can mention relevant, non-commercial websites as long as they support your comment.
  7. Impersonating or falsely claiming to represent a person or organisation.
     Please don't mislead other users by abusing our registration procedure.
  8. Posting in a language other than English.
  9. Invading people's privacyPlease don't post private addresses or phone numbers, including your own. You may post email addresses so long as you make it clear who they belong to.
  10. Posting an off-topic comment.
  11. Publicly disputing or arguing about moderator decisions
      If you disagree with any action taken then please raise it via email or PM.
  12. Annoying the forum owner
      If you have a query or a complaint then send a personal message or email. This is my site and I can say or do what I want and don't need lectures from anyone who doesn't like it. If you don't like this then don't use the site.

  Now, I don't often question accusastions made against me because usually they are without merit anyway, so what's that point. But I am really at a loss as to this particular accusation. thus, if there is somewhere or something else I should be reading so as to know the "forum rules" (although, I've been posting here exactly five years today and not much has changed in that regard, from what I can tell), please direct me to it. Indeed, I am quite open to being corrected if I have truly missed something..

  I bid you all peace!

  A slave of Christ,

  SJ