"Moses was the first JW" (page 2)

greendawn

They do indeed claim that Abel was the first JW it's another one of those totally unfounded grandiose claims in the vein of the invisible inspection by Christ that saw them getting chosen as God's elite people. Who can verify actions done invisibly, it's a smart way to deceive.

Also God did not say to the Jews you will be called my witnesses but you will be my witnesses, they would see and be able to witness about and verify His wondrous works. Unlike those worshipping worthless gods who are unable to do anything.

RubaDub

To be technical in case this was humor, the WTS teaches that Abel was the first JW. That elder flunked.

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rs p. 202 par. 3 Jehovah’s Witnesses ***

According to the Bible, the line of witnesses of Jehovah reaches back to faithful Abel.

Blondie ...

This seems very strange to me, VERY strange.

Why wouldn't Adam be considered the first witness of Jehovah? He was perfect up to the point he sinned.

Rub a Dub

blondie

I'm sure they imply the first "faithful" JW.

But I understand your point. I'm just reporting the WTS dogma, it doesn't imply I support it.

RubaDub

Thanks Blondie ...

You're right.

It just gets confusing with the circular reasoning that is so often used to "prove" things.

Rub a Dub

mustang

Why wouldn't Adam be considered the first witness of Jehovah? He was perfect up to the point he sinned.

Rub a Dub

I was wondering about that, too:

We all know that Adam got "reproved"; was it a Public Reproof, Private Reproof or a DF'ing, all the way?

And who can say that he didn't get Reinstated? Maybe he outlived one JC and moved to a new congo...

Mustang

Narkissos

MM,

It seems about clear to me that the "witnesses" in 12:1 are the pre-christian faithful whose non-exhaustive list is given in chapter 11. The distinction between them and the Christian readers appears in the expression "since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses," lit. "we too having so large a cloud of witnesses surrounding us": Christians are pictured as running as Greek athletes in the middle of a crowd of veteran spectators who have already gained the victory. In context, the latter are witnesses to faith (rather than to God) -- a faith which also bore witness to them in their own past testing, as the opposite use of "witness/testimony" in chapter 11 shows. So we have a double, reciprocal use of "witness" in 11--12:1. Moreover it can be pointed out that the use of martus ("witness") in 12:1 gets very close to the late(r?) technical sense of martyr, which perfectly suits the models of "higher faith" celebrated in the previous verses (11:36ff).

RubaDub

It seems about clear to me that the "witnesses" in 12:1 are the pre-christian faithful whose non-exhaustive list is given in chapter 11. The distinction between them and the Christian readers appears in the expression "since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses," lit. "we too having so large a cloud of witnesses surrounding us": Christians are pictured as running as Greek athletes in the middle of a crowd of veteran spectators who have already gained the victory. In context, the latter are witnesses to faith (rather than to God) -- a faith which also bore witness to them in their own past testing, as the opposite use of "witness/testimony" in chapter 11 shows. So we have a double, reciprocal use of "witness" in 11--12:1. Moreover it can be pointed out that the use of martus ("witness") in 12:1 gets very close to the late(r?) technical sense of martyr, which perfectly suits the models of "higher faith" celebrated in the previous verses (11:36ff).

Narkissos:

An extremely skillful and clever method of explaining the issue.

I've noticed I can read if from right-to-left as well as left-to-right and it still makes perfect sense. Try it.

Rub a Dub

garybuss

Were early Jehovah's Witnesses Christian?

uninformed

Garybuss,

I don't think so.

WTS claimns an unbroken line of witnesses from Abel on down, but when Jesus established the Christian congregation, the Bible says that "by Divine Providence they were called Christians".

I wonder why Rutherford thought he could improve on Divine Providence?

Since Jesus was "the faithful and true witness" I guess by default his followers became witnesses. Did we really "witness" anything? Is there another appropriate application of that word?

U

garybuss

Then I wonder . . . Were the Bible writers and scribes through history Jehovah's Witnesses?

"Moses was the first JW"

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