SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT re: Riley Trust Tobacco Compan Stock & WTS

by Oroborus21 78 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  sf

  Yea, just like the Hells Angels...most are aware of how they make their money. Yet many organizations accept it as donations.

  Can't wait to see Eddie and Dozy's reply to Scullys dead-on post. Not holding my breath though. I'm sure they will evade every point she made.

  All money is a product of this world and all jobs, companies, etc. are connected in some way.

  Then WHY!!! does WTBTS continually preach that they are no part of this world?

  I doubt that gets a reply either.

  I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it's my opinion and gut feeling that Eddie is some type of a wt mole. Just not sure who he is actually supplying info to and where he is getting his.

  sKally
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  Oroborus21

  Howdy,

  I only wish to reiterate briefly re: Scully's (and other's) main contention and touch on a few other comments thus far. Unfortunately, we do not know whether anyone at the WTS had actual knowledge of the trust assets detail or ever reviewed the 990s filed.

  You keep harping that they should have rejected the donation without proof that they had any knowledge whatsoever that the money was derived (in a tiny fraction) from shares in PM. Such an argument is only valid if we know for a certainty that they did know the stocks were in the trust. And I agree if they did know, the morally superior thing to do would be to either reject the whole donation or reject that portion of it derived from profits of the 350 PM shares.

  But we cannot assume that because the 990 detail was available in this forum or elsewhere on the Internet that the WTS accounts dept knew. Maybe someone at Bethel MIGHT have seen the reports on the Net but it is unlikely that they would have informed the accts dept out of fear of being asked why they were perusing such negative info on the Net in the first place.

  Similarly we cannot assume that it is the practice of the accts dept to review 990s or any other IRS or other government documents when they receive a donation from such a charity.

  The statement that "we knew it so they knew it" is a logical fallacy and assumes too much.

  I never said this was a major scandal or that many JW-opposers were up in arms over this. And I have never considered it a big deal, recognizing that the WTS was probably innocently accepting the donation without any due diligence in investigating the source. Yes there are many more weightier topics and graver sins of the Society. However for some posters to throw up such comments is to only produce Red Herrings away from the straightforward facts and the fact that the WTS never owned any tobacco stocks (that we know of) and that the Trust today doesn't owned any tobacco company stocks and hasn't for the past 4 years, since mid-2002.

  I have my own agenda and contentions with the WTS, my only aim with this post was to set the record straight.

  -Eduardo
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  Oroborus21

  Scully: forgot to add, that what is interesting is since the Riley Trust is actually, legally speaking, a charitable organization (Federal 501(c)3 and probably a charity under state law too) as with any charity if it were to wind down or cease operating, the State (Sectretary) would be notified and if there was any assets of the org they would be used for charitable purposes. So yes, the money is irrevocably dedicated for public charitable use which is why the government permits it to enjoy a tax break - however, since it is a trust, there is a great deal of freedom that the trustee (Comerica Bank) has to spend or use the money subject to its fiduciary duties not to waste the trust and to maximize its resoruces and profits.
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  Scully

  Unfortunately, we do not know whether anyone at the WTS had actual knowledge of the trust assets detail or ever reviewed the 990s filed.

  Fair enough, Eduardo.

  But obviously now, on March 15, 2006, they are certainly aware that a portion of the dividend they received was "tainted". They follow almost everything else on this discussion board, so to "overlook" this issue and claim they are not aware of it now is just a pile of pure crap. This has been a matter of record on JWD for almost 3 years now, and for them to not take steps to rectify the matter according to the same standards that they hold their followers to, is also a pile of pure crap.

  What they really need to do is #1 RETURN THE MONEY and then #2: publish a statement to the effect that they received dividends from a Trust Fund that named the WTS as the sole beneficiary, and then learned that a portion of that dividend was derived from shares in a company that produces goods that True Christians™ would not partake of, and that the dividend was returned in its entirety. That's all us "little people" want - to see them walk the walk, not just talk the talk, as they expect their followers to do.

  Scully (dreaming a little dream class)
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  BluesBrother

  Well said, Eduardo.. The opportunity for exageration is very much alive and well when discussing an organization that we dislike so much.

  The WTS do not exactly help themselves though. They tell the flock that stocks can be donated. That brings them into the position of being involved in the "World" and the "Commercial businesses of life" [2 Tim.2.4] which they claim to abhor.

  Do they compromise that standard for the sake of expediency and the need to genarate cash ? Or should thet wait on the Lord?

  As we saw with Rand Cam, donated shares in an engineering company became shares in a defence contractor when the company accepted that role. BTW The WTS denied ever being a shareholder in that company
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  wanda

  This very day money from stocks, trust etc derived from sources the Watchtower Society has had elders to preach against is still going into the pockets of the Watchtower Society, whether from deceased persons' investments, living persons or whomsoever or whatsoever.

  They have refused and still refuse to have nothing to do with such money. Therefore they are still wide open to and meriting of the censure they are getting. Oroburus/Eduardo, your efforts to make light of this simply shows your obedience to the horribly scarring traditions of Bethel headquarters.

  It also highlights that not significant reforms but more silly, lame excuses are the best Bethel can offer those of us who have tried to tell guys time and again to change. Instead you label all who point the money mishandling, the pedophiles being sent door-to-door, the U.N. liason flap etc as nothing.

  These things are growing in case you guys haven't noticed. Get off your own high horse and step down from your throne of arrogance. Tell Jaracz to get out and stay out. Use the KM to tell the creatures of darkness he's got running in the shadow among the rank-and-file to straighten up.
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  daystar

  Luke 16:10 (NIV)

  10 "Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much."

  Luke 16:10 (NWT)

  10 The person faithful in what is least is faithful also in much, and the person unrighteous in what is least is unrighteous also in much.
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  carla

  Maybe they ought to just df the dead person who left in their will to the wt and they can claim total ignorance. What that would do to their revival at the big A I don't know!
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  FairMind

  Oroborus, thank you for your clear and unbiased explanation of why the WTS is not guilty of hypocritically owning tobacco stock. You my friend are guilty of nothing but telling the truth of this matter. Seems to me that some of those replying to your comment are so blinded by their hate of the WTS that they are unable to be objective in their viewpoints.
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  greendawn

  If the WTS receives money from the profits of cigarette sales however indirect this may be, by their own standards it something wrong. JWs are not even supposed to sell cigarettes in supermarkets or in their own shops.