Pinch me! Is it a dream or what?

by AK - Jeff 19 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Brigid


    This is really cool. I hope all goes well and you will have much to share with the group upon your return.


  • fullofdoubtnow

    All the best Jeff, I hope it goes well

  • DigitalFokus

    Good luck bud!

  • Gretchen956

    Very cool that you are meeting up with your friend, surreal that you have to sneak out of town to do it. Will the hold over us never end?? Yikes.


  • LittleToe

    I know the feeling well. Good luck

  • AudeSapere

    I hope it's going really well.

    Looking forward to an update later on.


  • gumby

    AKJeff.....ain't you got back yet? I've been waitin up since yesterday and I wanna go to bed dammit!!!!


  • Frog

    update please Jeff!! frog x

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff


    Thanx all for the interest and well wishes on this matter. I do thank you.

    Well, it turned into an all day thing. There was another witness there from his hall whom I have known for 30 yrs also, and he was pleasant. I actually think he was a 'guard-dog' in a sense. But I waited him out. I hung around, finally until it was lunchtime, and we all went to lunch. That really surprised me - these two witnesses eating a meal with a local apostate. The other brother is an elder and on the RBC. He tried to bring up a few 'positive' witness situations to us a few times, trying to encourage me back subtly I think, but nothing too intense. Of course, both my cousin and the elder had to say thier 'proper prayers' before they ate. I just dug in. We actually had a good time.

    After lunch we returned to the business site, and I waited out the elder until he finally had to leave and go back to work. [He is self employed and an investor in the business so I was afraid he might stay all day.] Then my cousin and I were alone and had a long discussion. I let him mention the 'truth' and kind of lead the discussion. He did not preach to me at all. He knows the basic reasons I left, but we covered that ground again - I made it clear that I left for reasons of conscience, and I elaborated on the UN scandle. I spoke in a quiet, non-demonstrative fashion, and I made repetetive mentions of 'trying to make sure I was pleasing the Master Jesus'.

    At one point he asked 'Well, where do you go from here?', which left open the door for discussion regarding Peter's comment "Lord, to whom would we go away?". I pointed out that it was not to where, but to whom. Then we talked about what I refer to as the 'Two parable captivity'. My theory is that without the WTS distortion of the parable of the FDS combined with the parable of the Wheat and weeds there would be no basis for accepting that any one organization has absolute truth.

    He then asked "What about works - preaching". I acknowledged that both Jesus and the apostles indicated that 'works' would be part of Christian life - but that witnesses seem to have the order confused. James said that works would naturally follow faith. Witnesses think that works define faith. Then I asked why certain works that are done by good people - charity, relief programs, soup kitchens, aiding the elderly, etc, would not qualify. Jesus never went door to door. No Bible writer ever suggested that such would be done in the manner done by Witnesses. I mentioned that I was aware of many former witnesses who were doing wonderful works for the poor and so forth. Why would those not qualify as something the Lord would see and reward? He admitted that what I said made sense.

    He returned to the 'but what will you do now'? Witnesses are fixated on having a defined program for life, and confused when someone just admits no clear direction. I admitted that I did not have an absolute direction at the moment, as far as religion is concerned, but that I very much considered myself an 'unchurched' Christian at the moment, and that I believed that it was not place to judge who might or might not have the 'truth', doctrinally. I told him I had spent the past two years 'healing', and that I might never trust organized religion again, at least in the way I trusted the WTS. I told him I had developed both Christian and non-Christian friends, many of them former witnesses, and that my mind was open to all things that it was closed to before. He seemed impressed with that.

    I think the friendship has been re-opened. At one point though his wife called and I am sure she was reading him the absolute riot act for being there with me. When I left we hugged. I will move slowly. I don't know if I will be able to make him think. I don't know how long he will let me in his life. I am happy we had the meeting together. I love him dearly. But don't really know if we could honestly continue a friendship of any real quality as long as he has his mind on loan to the borg. But at least it is back to a civil relationship. I must stele myself against pressing him too hard. But a crack is open in the door at least. I will let him lead. A significant emotional event will at some point make the light come on I hope. He knows where to turn when that happens. I suspect that the elder that was there will make full report to the others, especially the concern that I am again in the picture. If the elder's put pressure on him, the whole thing will most likely go south again. But now that he has demonstrated that he wishes to maintain a contact with me, I don't know how that will affect him. It could be positive.


  • luna2

    Sounds like a very positive meeting, Jeff. Whether he will be willing to keep the relationship open or not, at least you had this opportunity to try to open his mind a bit. I'll be hoping that he keeps in touch.

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