I'm a Neutral Jehovah's Witness
Welcome - people might notice and respond more if you post on a new thread.
I would encourage you to stay awhile, even if some of it shocks you - you might be surprised by what you find.
For me, an active appointed brother, I come here to ask the questions that I'm not allowed to ask at the K.Hall.
Like the original poster on this thread, I know that the WT has not got everything right (something they admit themselves by keeping releasing revised teachings) and I'm working out what Jesus must think about this.
Stick around, ask questions, make friends, learn to open your mind and think things through properly.
Nice to have you here!
"I'm really glad you're finding this forum useful. This is exactly the kind of discussion that I thought it would be useful for - the things that need to be discussed but can't easily be raised with local elders because of how they've been instructed to handle them.
I'm sure that if enough people express concern on a particular issue that they can't ignore the feeling behind it." Simon
It's been thirteen years since Simon wrote this post and what actions has the Tower taken to enable more dialog?
1. The Tower removed the "Book Study" group and this killed off any outside study we talked about, with our small groups over cake and coffee.
2. The Tower streamlined the Magazines to a simpleton style, made it so you must "parrot" their answers in 30 Seconds Or Less.
3. Lied about their involvement with the United Nations as a Partner.
4. Instead of becoming more progressive, the Tower has bolted down their doors and hiding from the real issues that are hurting a large amount of their membership.
5. Who would have thought we would have been harboring pedophiles in Jehovah's Clean Congregation? We are getting worse as time goes by and the love that once existed has gone out the window!
6. Demanding Payment for repairs or acts of Charity, they are worse than Pharisees and Sadducees.
What's going to happen for the next thirteen years Simon?
What would happen theoretically if you were to ask these things at the Kingdom Hall?
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the truth and everything, but it just does not sit right with me, if there are certain questions you can't ask. Or even as Martini says their cure all advice for EVERYTHING seems to be "Keep going to the meetings, keep studying, keep active in the ministry, keep praying, keep fellowshipping with wholesome associates"
I had a problem one time pertaining to my ex, he was worldly and I was getting involved with the truth at the same time, so long story short, we broke up. I had approached a few people on this question the sister I am studying and an elder and his wife who are also close friends of mine. And so I asked them "who would I talk to in order to work out these issues?"
So here is what they told me, that they really don't provide any "councelling sessions" about that kind of stuff, or the one to REALLY talk to about my emotions, is Jehovah.
And thats great! I commend the faith for keeping UP the faith in Jehovah. So I said to them, well that is great and everything, but prayer, and repeated advice from the elders is not a cure all remedy.
In fact, I was actually told by the sister I am studying with, that if I need help in the way of councelling to go seek a professional councellor.
Can you see what is wrong with that? a councellor is a worldly person right? And I know that there is NO VALUE WHAT-SO-EVER, in the advice and oppinions of worldly people. So Is giving me the go ahead to seek out a councellor like putting value on his professional advice as a worldly person?
I suppose though, even if you can get an elder to work with you through your problems, it would have to be biblical counsil first, before any kind of Dr Phil Method right?
These are some good points, Thank You.
Yes, I understand now how it has been "reduced" so-to-speak" I have heard about how the meetings and conventions used to be, and I would always say, I wish things were still like that.
I want to be going to meetings three times a week, and I want to go to 7 day long conventions. I LOVE the conventions.
Thursday Nights now, as I understand is Family Worship Night, which I do attend with some of my friends. I must say though, there must have been a family dynamic problem within congregations if they had to sacrafice a meeting and designate it as a time that you must have with your family, it is kind of sad in a way, its like we have to be told to spend time with the family.
On the other hand though, when there was three meetings a week, wouldn't it have been a family effort to keep up on material, plus talks in the TMS? Wouldn't that count as family worship? That workload for an individual would be tough, I mean heck, I find it such a load to keep up on the two meetings and my study, but I get through, but it would help if it was a family effort, you tutor eachother, in a nice loving enviorment.
What I was told though, it was to save travel time for those who had a long way to come for the meetings.
And when they explained the whole 30 seconds or less, for a comment, they said it was so that everyone can have a share.
I am starting a prayer chain here, if anyone wants to pray for this too, by all means, but I am going to start praying for the old ways to come back, for more meetings, more conventions, and more days at the conventions. I beleive it would be strenghening to us.
Really if they need to cut anything, it would be the required pioneer hours, just to take the preasure off our pioneers.
LEW: Someone said that, "Field Service, Pioneering and the Meetings is what the faith has been reduced to" If thats really the case, explain how.
jgnat: As far as I’ve been reading the magazines, this is the three activities that a Jehovah’s Witness is encouraged never to abandon. It is the advice given to those who are discouraged and depressed. It is highlighted as the surest way to draw closer to Jehovah.
LEW: How was it better before.
jgnat: I see spiritual communities doing a better job of this now. I’m not sure if the Watchtower Society or the Bible Students before them ever got this right. Field service has always been a principal feature of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Preaching without spiritual renewal is like offering water from an empty well.
Where and who might be doing it better? The first century Christians broke bread together, prayed together, and pooled their resources to take care of the poor, the widows and orphans.
I like the Charter for Compassion
There’s the Purpose Driven Life movement.
There are others.
LEW: So with that said I have a question for everyone. What do you all think about, doing this here?
jgnat: I am free to discuss and learn wherever I find good information and conversation.I’m married, so I don’t bother with dating sites.
LEW: Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the truth and everything, but it just does not sit right with me, if there are certain questions you can't ask.
jgnat: There is only way of knowing the truth about something; test it and look for flaws. If you don't, all you have is a flimsy wall. To love the truth is to test it.
LEW: Can you see what is wrong with that? a councellor is a worldly person right? And I know that there is NO VALUE WHAT-SO-EVER, in the advice and oppinions of worldly people.
jgnat: I take another view to the scriptural admonition to be "no part of the world". The world and all that is in it, afer all, was created by Jehovah, and he called it "good". There's the love of a mother for her child. A deer grazing peacefully in the woods. A glorious storm that washes the desert air clean. I narrow the view of "wordly" to be lewd behavior with no regard to others. With this narrower definition, there is no way that all people who are not Witnesses are "worldly". Your study partners were quite right that the elders are unsuited to provide counselling support. Go ahead and see someone who is professionally trained.
Well Put Jgnat:
I see, you noticed all the holes I was trying to highlight. It just gets confusing to be "no part of the world" and then if you need something the elders can't do, well then its okay to seek a professonal.
I guess my hope would lie in this, if I can find a JW who has studied therapy and councelling, that would be ideal but not likely. lol
Fortunetly though it has been over a year since my boyfriend and I split, and I am coming to terms with it now. This is just something I wish I could have planned in advance, given the circumstance that I came across the truth and fell in love with it.
Your right on the money with your dry well analogy. I feel that with the two meetings so close together, you have your meetings only a day a part so all of your meeting mindset is packed within those three days, and then the rest of the week your left to "dry out" so to speak.
I'm not so sure you get filled at the meetings. I find them rather dry myself.