Cults, Crisis, Concision

by RichieRich 27 Replies latest jw friends

  • atypical

    Richie, thanks for the really good post. I'm sorry to say the guilt trips are not going to end when you turn 18. I am 30, and I get into a similar conversation almost every few days with my mother. She relentlessly tries to equate her worth and her parenting skills with my feelings toward the organization. So anything I say, any good point I make, she responds with an apology for "not being the kind of mother I wanted" or "doing her best and giving everything she had for me".

    It is awful to deal with. A couple days ago I asked her a question: "Would you rather see me happy and healthy, or would you prefer to see me at meetings, even if I am miserable and suffering?"

    She responded, "I would rather prove Satan a liar."

    WTF? It can be overwhelming. I don't know exactly what will ever help this situation, but I have decided to follow the same course I am following with my wife (good advice I got here on JWD): I will prove that I am there for her, spend extra time with her, and reassure her of my love in ways that are completely unrelated to religion.

    After that nasty conversation, I called her back and told her this. "I love you and I would do anything for you. How I feel about religion has nothing to do with how I feel about you, and that will never change. As long as it depends on me, I never want to lose contact with you guys."

    Good luck to you, my man.

  • 95stormfront
    It is awful to deal with. A couple days ago I asked her a question: "Would you rather see me happy and healthy, or would you prefer to see me at meetings, even if I am miserable and suffering?"

    She responded, "I would rather prove Satan a liar."

    Never a direct answer to a question if the answer will not either reflect negartively upon the organization or align themselves squarely with whatever it says.

    I've asked my wife the same type of question and she dodged it the same way.

  • wednesday

    Ritchie, you are going to be an extremely famous apostate one of these days. You are already incredible at age 17.

    I feel bad for you mom. we were taught we have to earn our way to salvation. More hours. mags, etc, you will earn your salvation. Now she probably feels you are doomed. I know it is hard, but try not to let it get to you. Your mother will be prouder one of these days when she sees the org for what it is. One day she will see you were brave enough to buck the system and that our salvation is already paid for, we don't need to sign a letter and turn it into the wts so it will be official.

    It makes me laugh b/c I recall all those talks about an unbelieving mate being "won without a word" by Godly conduct. So keep up your fine conduct Ritchie, and perhaps she will be won without a word.


  • LDH


    You're a great kid.

    Your mom's behavior reminds me of the God Warrior on Trading Spouses--did anyone see that program?

    You must watch this clip. It was very moving to me, because this lady could be any 'loyal' Christian Witness. The look on the children's faces is haunting.

  • mrsjones5

    That was deep, so very deep. You often blow me away Richie. I hope one day your mother truely sees (without the blinders of the watchtower) what a fine man she has produced.


  • troubled mind
    troubled mind

    Richie Your A Good Young Man.......Always remember that........

    I know it hurts you to see your mom get so upset . But the biggest lesson to learn about this situation is she chooses to act and react really has nothing to do with you . She is an adult , and should act accordingly . It was over a freakin piece of paper it wasn't like you told her you were never going to fulfill your promise to her . When she rants and raves , the best thing you can do is remain calm not talk back, and go over and give her a big bear hug .Tell her , " I'm sorry you feel that way mom . " and then walk away . Try it ...maybe at least it will diffuse the situation and give you some peace .

    In my real life I'm Dr. Mom

  • valkyrie

    Dear Richie,

    I can only reiterate what others have already said: Your struggle is so evident and poignant! You are torn between appeasing your mother’s hunger [for control? validation? a good status in the congregation? a soothed conscience as a ‘successful’ JW parent?] and living up to the responsibility of listening to your own conscience. The others are undeniably correct: the ‘guilt trip’ will not end with submission of your temporary pioneer application, your 18 th birthday, your appointment to MS, your regular pioneer application, etc. Each instance where you succumb to the misdirected pressure to conform will only be another towline affixed – lashing your destiny firmly to that charterless monolith: the ship of fools.

    Richie, the intelligence and insight of your posts show that you are adequately equipped to direct your own course… if you claim captaincy of your own powers of reason before the wake of the Watchtower defeats you.

    You can no more be responsible for your mother’s (ongoing) decision to relinquish her life to an uncaring organisation, than can she be responsible for your choices. Ask yourself: if (and/or when) you hoist your own sail and set off on your own course – independently of the WTS – will your mother’s loyalty work towards you, or towards the organisation? It is ill-advised to tether oneself to a drowning victim who is determined to go under. Better to secure your own life first, then to offer aid and harbour. Better to regret your mother’s choice of a suffocating life for herself, than to resent your mother once you have succumbed to the suffocation yourself. Better a survivor than a fellow victim.

    When you are unsure of which direction you should take, ask yourself: Does my mother ever ask me whether I am happy? Is your personal sense of joy and satisfaction in the life you now own even of importance to your mother… or to anyone else in that organisation? After asking myself that question (in a similar context) some years ago, I arrived at the irrefutable conclusion that, if life is sacred, this is the life to be revered, cherished and made the most of. Only persons who are interested and constructive in promoting that conclusion are allowed a position of importance in my decision-making and in my esteem. After all, once I have given my life over to another mere individual, that one is powerless to return it to me; I will have squandered the one object of value which is truly mine.

    Phrasing this for your mother’s consumption (if she is inclined to ‘reason’ from the scriptures: a scripture taken out of context [but that is nothing new, right?] – “Who are you to judge the house servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls. …”(Rom. 14:4, partially quoted). [You are free to (internally) complete this quote with your own adaptation, if you wish. E.g., "I am my own master!"]


  • lisaBObeesa
    She began screaming and crying. Babbling on about me lying, loving / not loving Jehovah, all because of this damn application.

    You see, Richie, on some level she already knows.

    Any little thing that makes her face it, sends her over the edge.

    It is sad.

    I remember going though this pre-separation time with my parents. I remember being so worried about my mom's feelings when I left. I tried so hard to let her down easy. I knew they really believed I would die if I left the JWs, and my parents did love me. I never doubted that.

    But I knew if I stayed in the Witnesses, I would die inside.

    I took at least a year slowly getting them ready for the moment I would leave. The last few months, I told them straight out I was leaving as soon as I turned 18. I guess maybe it was lucky for me (??), my mom and dad were in a bit of denial. They did have the elders come talk to me once, but I don't really think they believed I was leaving until after I left. And when I left they yelled after me, "You'll be back!"

    It was a scarey time, not knowing how it would all turn out, what family members I would loose and which I would keep.

    People should not have to go through this crap. Life is hard enough.

    If you're lurking, stop. Create a username, and post. Tell us who you are. Join the ranks. Stop my mother from crying. I can't take it.


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