Where are the Great Crowd in Rev. 7:15? Every JWs should read this.

by Desino 28 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Desino

    Every Jehovah's witness should know this. I believe it is the current understanding of WTS that the great crowd is rendering sacred service on earth after the great tribulation.

    Rev. 7: 15 And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore, "they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.

    Jon Mitchell a former secretary of the governing body discovered the correct interpretation of the verses. It's necesary to understand the meaning of the greek words naos and enopion. Temple is translated from naos and before is translated from enopion. Other scriptures in Revelation is using the same word naos about God's temple.

    The Greek word naos refers often to the inner sanctuary representing heaven itself.

    The Greek word enopion actually means; in the presence (sight) of.

    I found these in Strongs Greek dictionary.

    Now insert these accurate meanings in the vers 15. The subsequent question is: How can one be in the sight of Gods throne if they are standing on earth? They can not!

  • Shazard

    Most funny is to find out WHERE is 144000 showed. And WHY the seal is placed on their head. I don't remember exactly but in OT there is similar case... guess Ec 9 the seal is put on them BECAUSE they are on the Earth not in Heaven, to protect them from devastating 4 angels.

  • Narkissos
  • greendawn

    In Rev 7:11 the angels are described as being about the throne and no JW can doubt that they are in heaven, so why do the argue that the GC in verse 15 who are described as being before the same throne are not in heaven? They are also said to be in the naos or the temple proper which makes them priests and are therefore identified with those going to heavens to be kings and priests. They are not standing in the temple complex because in Greek that would be the hieron but in the naos or temple proper AKA the sanctuary.

    Notice also that the GC coming out of the great tribulation are dressed in white garments which means they are already justified before God and don't have to wait until the end of 1000 years to reach that stage as the JWs claim. Rev 3:5

  • Star Moore
    Star Moore

    Because God's throne is with us..right here on earth..

    John 14:23...."In answer Jesus said to him: "If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my father will love him, and we shall come to him and make our abode with him."

    John 14:23..Jerus.Bible "If anyone loves me he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make our home with him."

    Because I believe when the holy spirit fills us then God's throne is right there with us, yes, right here on earth...

  • heathen
    The subsequent question is: How can one be in the sight of Gods throne if they are standing on earth? They can not!

    They sure as hell can .......... My take is that the kingdom of heavens is actually the city of new jerusalem that lands on earth and actually plays the part of a noahs ark during the GT .

  • jwfacts

    Each term that identifies the Great Crowd in Revelation 7:9-17 is elsewhere applied to scriptures the Watchtower claims is referring to Anointed ones in heaven. This must likewise place the Great Crowd in heaven.

    1. "great crowd"


    Revelation 19:1 - After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven…"

    2. "out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues"


    Revelation 5:9 - And they sing a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth."

    3. "standing before (enopion) the throne"


    Revelation 7:11 - And all the angels were standing around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell upon their faces before (enopion) the throne and worshiped God.


    the 144 000 in Rev 14:3 are standing before the throne.

    4. "before (enopion) the Lamb"


    Revelation 5:8 - And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before (enopion) the Lamb, having each one a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense, and the [incense] means the prayers of the holy ones.

    5. "dressed in white robes"


    Revelation 6:11- And a white robe was given to each of them; and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled also of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they also had been.

    6. "crying with a loud voice, saying: "Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.""

    o Revelation 19:1 - After these things I heard what was as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven. They said: "Praise Jah, YOU people! The salvation and the glory and the power belong to our God (w81 1/15 p. 16 "The singing of those heavenly voices")

    7. "come out of the great tribulation"

    o Matthew 24:21-22 For then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.

    o Mark 13:24-27 24 "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then he will send forth the angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from earth’s extremity to heaven’s extremity.

    8. "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    o Rev 22:14 - Happy are those who wash their robes, that the authority [to go] to the trees of life may be theirs and that they may gain entrance into the city by its gates.

    9. "rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple"

    o Revelation 11:1-2 - And a reed like a rod was given me as he said: "Get up and measure the temple [sanctuary] of God and the altar and those worshiping in it. 2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple [sanctuary], cast it clear out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations,

    10. "One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them"

    o 2 Corinthians 6:16 - For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: "I shall reside among them and walk among [them], and I shall be their God, and they will be my people.

  • ferret

    Easy He moves His throne to the earth.

  • Flash

    Its clear to me that if God wanted Humanity in Heaven we would have started out there. God created the Earth for us and us for the Earth. The small amount of people that are chosen to live in Heaven are a "New Creation" because it was never God's plan for us to live there.


    Welome Desino

  • yaddayadda

    There's a portion in the appendix of Ray Franz's book 'In Search of Christian Freedom' that has a comparison of verses relating to the 144,000 and the Great Crowd that I found quite startling and disturbing when I first read it, as I think any JW would.

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