SOME GENUINE QUESTIONS FOR PMJ

by diamondblue1974 28 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider
    Why must all non JWs be destroyed? Surely JWs are not the only good god fearing people on earth? (and to be honest most of those JWs arent either)

    Who will be destroyed and who will not isn't ours to call. I'm glad it's not up to me.

    Aha. The PR-friendly version of "the Truth". I`ve seen that one before. Ususally when confronted with critical people, or people who actually had brains. I used to get confused over these two versions of "the Truth" when I was a child, going door to door with my parents, hearing them suddenly pull out this PR-friendly version of "the Truth", when conronted by intelligent people on this issue. And afterwards, when we were walking away from that door, and I`d ask them "I thought only Jehovahs Witnesses would survive Armageddon?" (after all, this is the real truth, this is what we were always told at the meetings), and I remember the confused look on my fathers face. Unlike my mother, he actually had an ounce of brains left in him, and I could see that this bewildered him too, the poor idiot. Engaged in "spiritual warfare" without even knowing it. Fortunately, he`d soon forget. Now,if anyone are confused over this, this is the real Truth!:

    Of those living at the time of Armageddon, only Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved] {WT Feb 15 1979 30}

    Their dishonesty on this fucking pisses me off!
  • Think
    Think

    Eureka ! New Light on King of the South and King of the North !

    The King of the North : Non beliewers in JW Doctrines.

    The King of The South : FrankenstainTower and Supporters !

    Sword on Sword fighting !

  • FairMind
    FairMind
    If Jehovah has needlessly made his son suffer as he did, and in turn we have suffered needlessly through these centuries...how does this reconcile itself with the Jehovahs Witness view that Jehovah is a 'God of love'?

    LittleToe, as a church goer, how would you answer the above question?

    Expanding a bit on the Bible definition of wicked. It is anyone who is not doing the will of God. 1John 2:17 - The world is passing away and so is it's desire, but he that does the will of God lives forever.

  • diamondblue1974
    diamondblue1974

    If someone makes an issue over something you have said or done, in front of others, how do you answer it? Yes God could have just wiped Satan out but would it ANSWER Satan's challenge?

    So you agree with my point then; God has permitted wickedness to prove a point! His son suffered to prove a point; we have suffered to prove a point; what father in their right mind would do that?

    DB74

  • billyboy
    billyboy

    1... Yes (See account about Job for further details)

    2... Setting of precedent - natural justice , preventing of further Satans

    3... Ransom doctrine

    4... Refer to answer 2

    5... (a) Major issue at stake - needed to be resolved

    (b) Others suffer innocently when an issue is at stake - eg 1 st Gulf War Resurrection hope to resolve

    6... Refer to answer 2

    7...No - he knew that some would follow him

    8...Wicked at time of Noah - “took no note” Community responsibility

    9...”Must worship in spirit & truth”. Non-Jews destroyed in Canaan.

    Overiding principle- “God does not desire any to be destroyed , but desires all to attain to repentance.”

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Fairmind:

    If Jehovah has needlessly made his son suffer as he did, and in turn we have suffered needlessly through these centuries...how does this reconcile itself with the Jehovahs Witness view that Jehovah is a 'God of love'?

    LittleToe, as a church goer, how would you answer the above question?

    Expanding a bit on the Bible definition of wicked. It is anyone who is not doing the will of God. 1John 2:17 - The world is passing away and so is it's desire, but he that does the will of God lives forever

    . First off, I'm wondering what my going to church has to do with anything But in answer to your question, isn't it a tale of inexplicable human suffering? I wouldn't like to take the full-on gnostic route of the demiurge, nor the aloof transcendant principle of the Deist, but nor do I think that God steps in and interferes with every bowel movement of man. My opinion, like it or not, is that we are "Lords" of this planet and are expected to get on with it. Sure He'll step in if we abducate in His favour, but only insomuch as it doesn't interfere with our freewill. The Christ story is pregnant with meaning, especially if you consider it from the perspective of God abducating to God in an ultimate example of self-abandonment. Giving something up to gain everything. As for people doing the will of God, what do you understand as the "will of God"? Is it to act perfectly to the dictates of a rulebook in every situation, or is it to take His lead? A chimpanzee can be trained to behave in a certain way, and to play follow-my-leader. To intelligently follow a leader may require something more

  • fullofdoubtnow
    fullofdoubtnow

    Good questions db

    I notice that PMJ hasn't replied yet, and I doubt he wiil, or that he knows how.

    After all, skyman is still waiting for a reply to his blood letter question, so you may have to be patient.

  • diamondblue1974
    diamondblue1974
    I notice that PMJ hasn't replied yet,

    I had noticed that myself although I have had my memory refreshed as to what the WTBTS view is about this issue. It was out of interest really what an apologists view is on this issue and whether or not it has changed since I left.

    At least someone has attempted to answer it though; it was interesting to see their views; with regards to PMJ, I wont hold my breath.

    DB74

  • Beep,Beep
    Beep,Beep

    Of those living at the time of Armageddon, only Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved] {WT Feb 15 1979 30}

    Are you sure of your source here? No such statement appears on the CD.

    Contents

    ? w79 2/15 p. 30 God’s Requirement that His Work Be Done "Just So"

    ? w79 2/15 p. 30 Why Offerings of Honey Were Unacceptable

    ***

    w79 2/15 p. 30 God’s Requirement that His Work Be Done "Just So" ***

    [Top of page 30]

    by God’s law. Now the bringing of the ark proved to be truly a time of great rejoicing, causing King David to commemorate the occasion by a psalm in which he exulted: "Jehovah himself has become king!"—1 Chron. 15:15, 16; 16:1-37.

    Good King David had also to learn that while it was a fine thing to bring Jehovah’s ark of the covenant to Jerusalem, to please God it had to be done "just as Moses had commanded by Jehovah’s word." In fact, David himself admitted as much, saying: "You [Levites] must bring the ark of Jehovah the God of Israel up to the place that I have prepared for it. Because at the first time you did not, Jehovah our God broke through against us, for we did not search after him according to the custom."—1 Chron. 15:12, 13, 15.

    DOING

    JEHOVAH’S WORK "JUST SO" IN OUR DAY

    God’s Word shows that he has ever had just one visible agency directing his work on earth. At the time of the Deluge it was Noah. In later years it was the nation of Israel; he recognized it alone. (Amos 3:2) That is why King Solomon asked Jehovah God to hear the foreigner that prayed toward his house. (1 Ki. 8:41-43) When the Son of God came to earth he became the sole agency that his Father used and all had to recognize that fact. (Matt. 12:30; John 14:6) With the outpouring of God’s spirit upon the waiting disciples in Jerusalem a "faithful and discreet slave" class came into being. This body of Christ’s disciples was used by Jehovah to provide spiritual food, and to give direction to the work that Jesus commanded his disciples to do.—Matt. 24:45-47; Acts 2:1-42.

    Whom today is Jehovah God using to carry out his work in the earth? It must be a group of people who follow closely in Jesus’ footsteps as to being faithful witnesses of God (Rev. 3:14); as respects preaching the good news of God’s kingdom (Matt. 4:17); as respects accepting God’s Word as truth and being familiar with it and using it (Matt. 4:4, 7, 10; John 17:17); as respects keeping separate from the world (John 15:18, 19; 17:16); and as respects their having self-sacrificing love among themselves. (John 13:34, 35) The facts show that it is the Christian witnesses of Jehovah alone who, in all these respects, imitate Jesus Christ. In fact, they have been organized for the very purpose of carrying on the work that Jesus began, namely, preaching the good news of God’s kingdom and making disciples. They do "just so," in obedience to Jesus’ instruction at Matthew 24:14 and 28:19. They work conscientiously in Kingdom activity.

    Being conscientious in everything that relates to God’s work requires much of Christians. But it is worth it. It is rewarding. First of all, it means being pleasing to one’s heavenly Father, Jehovah God. It means being able to do the most good for others. And it also means benefiting ourselves most, and that in every way, even as the Scriptures make clear: "He that sows bountifully will also reap bountifully."—2 Cor. 9:6.

    ***

    w79 2/15 p. 30 Why Offerings of Honey Were Unacceptable ***

    Why

    Offerings of Honey Were Unacceptable

    God’s law to Israel stated: "You must make no sour dough and no honey at all smoke as an offering made by fire to Jehovah." (Lev. 2:11) The particular honey referred to is evidently the syrup of fruits, since such honey, not bees’ honey, could be spoken of as being firstfruits. (Lev. 2:12; 2 Chron. 31:5) The honey of fruits could ferment and, therefore, was rightly prohibited as an offering upon the altar.

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider
    Are you sure of your source here? No such statement appears on the CD.

    No, I`m not sure, I don`t have the CD. I have some phtocopies and lots of notes,maybe my notes are wrong. But there are plenty of others too: From The Watchtower, September 1, 1989, p. 19: "Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium":

    Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil. (Revelation 7:9-17; 2 Corinthians 4:4) They will make up the "flesh" that Jesus Christ said would be saved through the worst tribulation of all human history. As it was in the days of Noah, said Jesus, so it would be in the day when He would be revealed. Inside the ark that took many years of organized effort to complete, only eight human souls survived the global Deluge. They survived as a united family group. (Matthew 24:22, 37-39; Luke 17:26-30) Noah's wife corresponds to the bride of Christ, and his sons and daughters-in-law to Jesus' present-day "other sheep," who have grown into an increasing great crowd, the final proportions of which we do not now know. (John 10:16) For survival into the Millennium under the Greater Noah, Jesus Christ, they have to remain organized with the anointed remnant, "the chosen ones" on account of whom the days of the "great tribulation" will be cut short.

    and:

    From The Watchtower, December 1, 1999, p. 18:

    Be Happy Readers of the Book of Revelation
    The message is clear: If we want to survive Armageddon, we must remain spiritually alert and keep the symbolic garments that identify us as faithful Witnesses of Jehovah God.

    So, are these quotes wrong too?

    Here`s an essay by Alan Feuerbacher on this issue:

    http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/saved.htm

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