by diamondblue1974 28 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • ozziepost

    They seek him here,

    They seek him there,

    They seek that PMJ


  • Beep,Beep

    ""The point I was trying to make is that God had the capacity to create us as perfect so why didnt he? Granted Adam botched it up but without satan around it wouldve worked...or would it? Simply start again, nobody wouldve been the wiser. Much less suffering surely .""

    What of the other angels that witnessed and understood Satan's challenge? Would you have God destroy those loyal angels so that no one would be the wiser?

    Would destroying Satan, Adam, and Eve have solved the problem? Would you have God brain wash the angels so that none of them would remember Satan and the issues raised?

    ""Also too you mention that Adam brought about those conditions, whilst in part that might be true but the ultimate conditions i.e the fact that Satan existed at this point is down to a much higher source who ultimately must be to blame.""

    Sorry but if you want to blame God for Satan's action, I have to strongly disagree. Satan is responsible for Satan's actions.

  • exjdub
    The main answer to the questions in relation to wickedness being permitted is that Jehovah is proving Satan to be a liar (in other words to prove a point). Do you accept that this is the case?

    No. From what I can pull together it is not to prove Satan a liar. It is because Satan challenged Jehovah's right to rule.

    My memory is getting quite fuzzy the longer that I am away from the Bible and religion, however I don't remember Satan ever challenging Jehovah's right to rule. Correct me please, if I am wrong, but I don't remember Satan ever doing this. The only thing I remember is:

    1.) Satan said that God was a liar ("God knows that in the day you eat from it...".).

    2.) Satan said that Man would not worship God if he was not protected by him (of which Job became a test case).

    Again, please correct me if I am wrong, but where does Satan ever call into question Jehovah's right to rule? And, if he did so with these statements, supposedly the issues were settled at that time. Adam and Eve supposedly did start dying on the day they ate, or at least that is the explanation, and Job did prove God right by worshipping him despite severe hardship and devestating losses. SO WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD GOD NEED TO PROVE ANYTHING, ESPECIALLY THE RIGHT TO RULE, IF THE ISSUES WERE SETTLED AT THE TIME THEY WERE RAISED????!!!!! And why would God have to permit suffering of all mankind to prove a point that was already made? Hmmmmmm...

    Another example of the childlike reasoning from the HoHo's (WTBS) and Christianity in general.

    Bonus Question: Why does Christianity/Judaism enjoy so much violence and suffering? At every turn of the pages in the Bible there is either someone who is suffering for their faith or killing because of their faith. If there ain't killin' or sufferin', there ain't faith. As for me and my houshold, we have had enough of the violence thank you. So we checked out...


  • exjdub
    Why should Jehovah have to sacrifice his son because of the actions of a so called rebellious spirit?

    I believe that that sacrifice is to redeem MANKIND not Satan

    Wouldnt the most loving thing to do (if this explanation has any truth in it) be to destroy Satan earlier and therefore dispense with the need for a ransom sacrifice?

    As above, that sacrifice was needed to redeem mankind. It has nothing to do with Satan

    Why would God punish the human race for something that Satan did?

    God: "Angels It seems we have a pesky fellow who is bent on causing problems and misleading people so that they disobey. He is quite persuasive, in fact he is a liar and a slanderer. I know just how to fix this. Let's kill the people he misled, and for a bonus, let's plunge all of the descendent's of those 2 people into thousands of years of death, suffering, and general mayhem. Then, I will set up this impossibly complicated scheme where I make my son flesh, kill him, then resurrect him, so that I can redeem mankind. Meanwhile we will let Satan free for a good long time to prove that the World needs me. That'll fix Satan good!"

    I can't believe I ever believed this stuff...


  • ballistic

    Maybe PMJs been busted by his parents and lost his internet priviledges?

  • slugga
    I notice that PMJ hasn't replied yet,

    Its because as he sat down to type a reply Jehovah god sent a thunderbolt down which hit his modem and blew up his computer, because he was posting on an apostate site.

    His punishment, no computer, no access to and having to go to meetings with an Afro


  • Abaddon

    I've always found this one;

    The explanation is to demonstrate once and for all Jehovah's right to rule. Man has been given time to demonstrate the ability to rule. How good of a job has he done?

    .. to be a bit suspect.

    God; "Okay Mr. Smarty Human, you think you can rule yourself. Go on then, see what happens!"

    Man; "Okay."

    God; "Oh, but you're gonna be suseptable to disease and will die."

    Man; "How's that fair?"

    God; "Fair? What's fair got to do with it?"

    Man; "Well, I was perfect, and decided to rule myself, now you're gonna let me prove it BUT without perfection - you're setting me up to fail!"

    A few generations later and God, having siad he'd let man rule themselves to show how incapable they are, interferes and kills off everyone but Noah and his family. Despite this terrorism against and destabilisation of man rule, a few generations later men get their act together and build Babel.

    Man One; "Hah, well, despite the fact we now age and die and catch diseases we're still co-operating together succesfully".

    God "Little sods - no telling what they might do - "abracadabra"!"

    Man One; "Mag ik de hammer alstublijf?"

    Man Two; "Eh, what did you say?"

    Man Three; " ? ? "

    Essentially the Borg's view of man's fall makes god a cheat; he takes man's actions as a challange, accepts the challenge, and then changes the rules the challange was made under so as to prevent the challange being succesful, and then, when it looks like his first lot of cheating wasn;t enough to win the game, cheats again.

    If man were still 'perfect', then the ability to govern themselves would be vastly enhanced. Monkies with an 80 year life span make poorer decisons than humans with infinate lifespans; they learn less, achieve less, cannot build on their achievements as they die.

    If god had played fair, Adam and his descendents would be giving god the finger from more than one solar system by now.

  • exjdub

    That's a great point Abbadon. How can a premise be established, especially if God was "establishing a legal case" (sorry for the WTBS speak) when the playing field is either tilted, or changed? I never thought about it from that perspective before. Thanks. exjdub

  • diamondblue1974
    Essentially the Borg's view of man's fall makes god a cheat; he takes man's actions as a challange, accepts the challenge, and then changes the rules the challange was made under so as to prevent the challange being succesful, and then, when it looks like his first lot of cheating wasn;t enough to win the game, cheats again.

    Totally agree to a point on that; it reminds me of a quote from one of my favourite films 'Devils Advocate'

    MILTON: ... Guilt is like a bag of f*cking bricks. All you gotta is set it down... Who are you carrying all those bricks for anyway? God? Is that it? God? Well I tell you. Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He's a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift and then what does he do? I swear, for his own amusement, his own private cosmic gag reel he sets the rules in opposition. It's the goof of all time. Look but don't touch. Touch but don't taste. Taste but don't swallow. And while you're jumping on one foot to the next, what is he doing? He's laughing his sick f*cking ass off. He's a tightass. He's a sadist. He's an absentee-landlord! Worship that? Never!


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