Christians - Do you believe the flood occurred?

by AlmostAtheist 59 Replies latest jw friends

  • kid-A

    The fact that a flood motif occurs in many cultural myths across the globe may suggest it is based upon some sort of flooding event possibly related to glacial melting.

    Naturally, primitive people would ascribe natural disasters to their tribal deities since they would have no understanding of geophysical catastrophies. However, the idea that there was some man named Noah who collected all the species of the earth and loaded them onto a hand-made vessel is patently absurd and a physical impossibility. Sadly, there are still neanderthals living amongst us who believe this mythical crap.

  • Navigator

    Old Flame

    You should take a course in Geology 101 which would answer the questions you raised. We do find crustaceans in mountainous areas because of "upthrust" caused by internal pressures in the earth. You can be assured that all of this took place long before mankind was on the earth. The area around Yellowstone Park is experienciing this phenomenae right now and is of great concern to Vulcanologists.

  • PMJ

    yes and there is also some very ignorant people on earth today.who think there more clever than God himself jehovah God says do not lean upon your own has been to other plants and kid_a beleives noah couldnt build a boat.and they were not that primative look at the pyrmids

  • james_woods

    The first Jesuit missionary priests to China (circa 1650) were just about laughed out of town because of their "bible" chronology - the Chinese had historical records showing their great civilization going way back before the accepted date for the flood.

    For example, their first emperor, Fu Hsi, was recorded to have begun his rule in 2952 B.C. which is about 600 years before the Hebrew date for the flood. The European churchmen arrogantly proclaimed that all Chinese records must have therefore been forged to make China look more ancient and powerful than it really was. So, the Chinese Jesuits began a search through the Chinese history for recorded instances of Solar Eclipse...these could really be verified by astronomy and validate or disprove the Chinese records.

    By 1729 they had found 26 provable solar eclipses that according to astonomical calculation fell on the exact day and time indicated by the Chinese authors. The earliest of these dated back to 2155 B.C., or only 250 or so years after the Hebrew date of the flood.

    This evidence, and other scientific facts, slowly caused it to become evident that the traditional Hebrew-based dates from the OT had to be at least "symbolic" if not just plain wrong. This formed the basis for the 17th century move to "natural philosophy". As the British Royal Society proclaimed by their motto "Nullius in Verba" - (take nobodys word for it)...

  • FairMind

    Yes, I believe it occurred. The articly at the Commentary Press website helps to explain away many of the things that make people doubt.

  • Qcmbr

    Yea I believe it and I've toyed with so many wierd theories as to how it could happen.

    This is my current point of daydreaming:

    The earth was once much smaller (why? - dunno - the core was less frothy..??)

    1 IN the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    ...(making light)

    6 ¶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
    7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

    This place between the sea and some celestial boundary was God's abode.

    8 And God called the firmament Heaven.
    9 ¶ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so

    there was this massive landmass which was pretty much underwater but had some part above sea (funny enough just like land now:) So we have Pangea.

    creation continues etcetcetc..though interestingly it doesn't look like man was created physically first - it reads that Man was created (in the plural) as non-material beings first.

    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them...
    1 THUS the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

    You have to be something before you can become something else..

    7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    Now move forward to Noah's time. We have one single landmass, no ice sheets etc.., much smaller earth (I'll show you where it says it later!)

    Flood story - God needs to clean the earth of the corruption and it has to be a total cleansing ( a baptism of the earth?) there isn't any space for a christian to honestly believe its saying anything local.

    17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

    I'm of the opinion God took people with him and clean animals to eat - I depart slightly from traditional understanding when it uses the word 'flesh' I suspect this means people...bite me Narkissos!:)

    19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

    and their food..

    20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
    21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.

    So no we don't have giraffes, alligators and lions tootling along in some Disney procession into the boat.

    OK - flood happens.

    11 ¶ In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
    12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.

    Suspect massive geological event like a supervolcano - frig loads of clouds and rain (note rain that is going to be acid and kill stuff super quickly - end results lots of dead dinosaurs in ultra antiseptic environment etc..all dying in agony along with vast areas of marine life creating super banks of chalk etc..) All animals snuffed along with people not in big acid resistant boat.

    Small earth (said I'd tell you)

    19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
    20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. (The common computation as to the length of the cubit makes it 20.24 inches)

    strange.. keeps mentioning stuff living IN the ground..? Just worms or something more..?
    22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

    Geological event ends.

    1 AND God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged;
    2 The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
    3 And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.

    Earth begins a phase of expansion...don't ask me how or why..I'm only mucking about..

    14 And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.

    Good job greenpeace weren't around at this point as Noah makes merry with endangered species.

    20 ¶ And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

    Possible hint at something different now:

    22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

    Has the earth tilted on her axis during this event? If so we would begin to see glacial activity as we are used to seeing it with a North and South Pole...?

    Note God is back on earth after the closure of heavens after Eden.
    8 ¶ And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,

    Also read Genesis 10 beginning to see why it is possible that the Ark contained some people by such names as
    2 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras.
    3 And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah.
    4 And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.

    Where did all the animals come from creation period...blow me..if I'd been there I'd have written a much better account honest...

    Earth is now we get

    5 By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.

    Beginning of break up of earth or just tribal...? I'll go for both.

    25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan. it all goes to pot and we need eons of time to make it work and get our tree rings, speciation, ice cores, himalayas etc, etc..

    I'm bonkers.
    Where's the human skeletons with the animals? - did they all go underground into some place to hide from this nasty rain and so we haven't found vast tombs of people...who knows...?

  • bebu

    I'm bonkers.


  • RodentBoy

    Navigator wrote:

    Hey Rodent Boy. What is your evidence that the Black Sea Theory was falsified? I doubt that the Science Channel would broadcast something that was not well documented and proven.

    I'm afraid I don't give much credence to science journalism, even from the Science Channel. Ballard's theory was blown out of the water. See

  • RodentBoy

    hooberus wrote:

    I believe the flood account in Genesis and that it was global.

    It is without foundation. NOt only is a global flood impossible, even if it were, it would have been unsurvivable. The ark described in Genesis wouldn't survive even in a calm sea. The global flood story fell apart in the 18th century by people who actually were trying to prove it. It never happened. It's a fanciful tale, and probably one of the single least believable ones in the Bible.

  • RodentBoy

    PMJ wrote:

    yes and there is also some very ignorant people on earth today.who think there more clever than God himself jehovah God says do not lean upon your own has been to other plants and kid_a beleives noah couldnt build a boat.and they were not that primative look at the pyrmids

    It's not a matter of primitive or advanced. Go ask any marine engineer. No one then and no one now could build a wooden boat that large that would survive even in calm waters. Even if they could, the boat would not hold all the land animals. The sheer weight of all the beetle species alone would sink a boat even the size of the one described.

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