by Check_Your_Premises 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
The reasoning book says that in Exodus 32:4-10 that the Israelites were punished for renaming an egyptian religious practice "the Festival of Jehovah".
They apply this to their list of arguments against Christmas. Is this a very good argument? Are there any good arguments that refute it?
Thanks in advance.
CYP
no arguments against it as far I have seen. Please if there is anyone that can please respond I would like to hear the answer as well
But then the memorial is celebrated on the same day as the Passover, a Jewish religious holiday that is part of the Jewish religion that was rejected by God in 70 C.E. (according to the WTS).
Blondie
Exodus 32:4-10
And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool,
after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O
Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made
proclamation, and said, To morrow is a feast to the LORD.And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and
brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and
rose up to play.And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou
broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they
have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed
thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up
out of the land of Egypt.
And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a
stiffnecked people:
Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that
I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
NWT
4 Then he took [the gold] from their hands, and he formed it with a graving tool and proceeded to make it into a molten statue of a calf. And they began to say: “This is your God, O Israel, who led you up out of the land of Egypt.”
5 When Aaron got to see this, he went to building an altar before it. Finally Aaron called out and said: “There is a festival to Jehovah tomorrow.” 6 So on the next day they were early in rising, and they began offering up burnt offerings and presenting communion sacrifices. After that the people sat down to eat and drink. Then they got up to have a good time.
7 Jehovah now said to Moses: “Go, descend, because your people whom you led up out of the land of Egypt have acted ruinously. 8 They have turned aside in a hurry from the way I have commanded them to go. They have made a molten statue of a calf for themselves and keep bowing down to it and sacrificing to it and saying, ‘This is your God, O Israel, who led you up out of the land of Egypt.’” 9 And Jehovah went on to say to Moses: “I have looked at this people and here it is a stiff-necked people. 10 So now let me be, that my anger may blaze against them and I may exterminate them, and let me make you into a great nation.”
So, if the intent is good-natured, and possibly in fact, a celebration of all that god has done for all, what makes it so bad? Worshipping something, an object? Fine, then don't do so and I guess, don't pray to the angel on top of the christmas tree. But getting together with family and friends because someone has the intent of showing thankfulness to god cannot be legitmately considered a bad thing.
Did those who did so get punshiment from god anymore than those who didn't celebrate anything, yet sinned in other ways? One is not better than the other for choosing or not choosing to celebrate holidays.
You sure you have the right scripture? They weren't renaming anything.... rather Aaron built an idol for the people to worship instead of Jehovah. They were idolitrous.
This has no comparison to christmas since people do not worship a tree or anything else surrounding christmas other than christ or god.
4 Then Aaron took the gold, melted it down, and molded and tooled it into the shape of a calf. The people exclaimed, "O Israel, these are the gods who brought you out of Egypt!"
5 When Aaron saw how excited the people were about it, he built an altar in front of the calf and announced, "Tomorrow there will be a festival to the LORD!"
6 So the people got up early the next morning to sacrifice burnt offerings and peace offerings. After this, they celebrated with feasting and drinking, and indulged themselves in pagan revelry.
7 Then the LORD told Moses, "Quick! Go down the mountain! The people you brought from Egypt have defiled themselves. 8 They have already turned from the way I commanded them to live. They have made an idol shaped like a calf, and they have worshiped and sacrificed to it. They are saying, `These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you out of Egypt.' "
9 Then the LORD said, "I have seen how stubborn and rebellious these people are. 10 Now leave me alone so my anger can blaze against them and destroy them all. Then I will make you, Moses, into a great nation instead of them."
Gumby
I thought of all that stuff first....I just type too damn slow!
I don't know if i am missing something, but i can not see how that scripture has anygthing to do with renaming an Egyptian religious festival. It was worshipping an idol of a calf, which is an entirely different matter.
Even if the date is wrong Christmas is to worship Jesus not the sun god and so has little relevance to this scripture.
CYP -
Can you give us the quote from the Reasoning book? Or can someone point to an online link to one? I foolishly discarded mine some time back - it was one of the pubs I intended to keep, but somehow I don't have it now.
I don't see how, from the context of what I read here that they substituted anything here - but the NWT could make it seem that way since it uses Jehovah instead of LORD, making it seem as though they were attributing worship to Jehovah instead of the calf - to me it seems they were preparing to commit idolatry - but I still see no substitution here.
Jeff
I broke out my bullisht reasoning book.
He's right on the scriptures.
The paragraph on pg. 179 says:
"Compare Exodus 32:4-10. Notice that the Israelites adopted an Egyptian religious practice but gave it a new name, "a festival to Jehovah." But Jehovah severely punished them for this. Today we see only 20th centruy practices associated with holidays. Some may appear harmless. But Jehovah observed firsthand the pagan religious practices from which these originated. Should not his view be what matters to us?
Could someone tell us what Hebrew word was here translated "Jehovah" in the NWT? Is it elohim?
If so, would that word not properly convey whatever God they were worshipping at the moment? So [if that is true - and I don't know] this statement is no substitution - but an attempt to worship an idol - the idol being the "Lord" or 'Jehovah' under reference.
Someone with better linguistics than I could answer that.
Jeff
