by Lady Lee 76 Replies latest jw friends
Two comments I receieved...
They're people. Humans who believe in a Higher Power, and they have their way of worshipping said Power.
I do know they have a bad rep. but I don't know why. I knew a girl who was (still is) J-W, and she was a great friend.
Why are you conducting this experiment, if I may ask?
and
Dedicated,
Persistent,
Pushy,
Self-righteous,
Narrow-minded.
I think this is very interesting, thank you for the idea.
Jackie
That is interesting
And two more...
The JWs that I know who are just members of the faith are just like everyone else I know...just like normal people, you might say!
The missionaries are another thing...they will NOT take no for an answer.
and this one that just points to one of the old posts on the forum:
There is an old thread that may be of interest as well. Jehova's Witnesses (spelled thus). There maybe some posts there that you can add? (I'm not about to read it to see
on which there are 8 pages of posts that I haven't looked through as yet.
Jackie
Arrrogant
Condascending
and everything else that Angakuk said.
I have a shop full of them, this is not an uneducated observance.
I think they're doggoned nuisances to my peace and privacy.
Though I will admit that despite what I feel is a really impolite intrusion on my life, the ones I have answered the door to have otherwise shown good manners and have even been occasionally kind and helpful.
I think they can be overzelous (sp?) I don't know anyone personally but I admire thier belife in thier faith. Even if I don't like being woken up at six on a satureday
Here's a list of their beliefs. Here are some of the ones I have a problem with:
-God's name is Jehovah. Sure, that's one name, but there are dozens of names for Him throughout the Bible. Why just that one.
-Christ is God's Son and is inferior to Him. OK, He is God's Son but Jesus is not inferior.
-Christ was first of God's creations. Jesus was not created- He always was, and in fact, there are references to Jesus actually doing the creating. If you want, I can look them up. John something...
-Christ died on a stake, not a cross. That is just the JW's getting picky about translations, IMO.
-Christ's human life was paid as a ransom for obedient humans. No human is entirely obedient. He died for the sinners. That was the whole point- if humans were obedient, He wouldn't have needed to come.
-Kingdom will bring ideal living conditions to earth. Not entirely sure what they mean by this but they obviously are ignoring Revelation.
-Earth will never be destroyed or depopulated. Again, this is contradicted in Revelation.
-Only a little flock of 144,000 go to heaven and rule with Christ. Riiiight. There are that many spared from the trials according to Revelation, that's not the number of souls that will go to heaven. Actually, the numbering in the Bible, especially the last book, is very symbolic and can't always be taken literally.
-The 144,000 are born again as spiritual sons of God. Like I said above, they're taking the number thing too literally.
-A Christian ought to have no part in interfaith movements. A Christian should keep separate from world. "In the world but not of it" is the way the Bible puts it, but it would be contrary to Jesus' example to separate ourselves from unbelievers. Instead of appearing to the rest of the world as wierdo outsiders with a superiority complex, Christians need to be right in the trenches with non-believers and teaching by example and humility. It's not about lecturing and arguing. Maybe that tactic is needed for some but not for most.
-Taking blood into body through mouth or veins violates God's laws. Yes, the laws written in the Old Testament. However, Jesus said that He was providing a new covenant and so the dietary restrictions were nullified. As long as these practice do not cause you or others to waver in the Christian faith, they are acceptable.
-Sabbath observance was given only to Israel and ended with Mosaic Law. It is one of the 10 commandments, and those commandments were broken down to 2 by Jesus while He was teaching: Love God and love your neighbor. The Sabbath is a way to honor God and really it's in our best interest to take the Sabbath anyhow. Anyone who takes a day of rest each week be it a believer or not will agree that one day of doing nothing each week is incredibly renewing.
-A clergy class and special titles are improper. But the Bible also talks about the gifts of the spirit and if leadership and preaching are a persons' gifts then it is improper to ignore those gifts.
This is my perspective on JW's as a Christian. I do not like a lot of their theology and their methods of preaching. It annoys me when they don't know when to quit. The above is my summary of how their faith conflicts with mine. Just because something on their list was left off mine does not necessarily mean I agree with it implicitly but these are the biggest ones.
If needed, I can supply Scriptural references to my POV. However, I don't want to turn this into a debate on the truth or falsity of Christianity or the Bible as a whole; there are other threads for that (and there's a reason I don't try to post there
I'm sitting here shaking my head. All those years I spent walking from one door to the next.
Now, here I am and I can't walk for more than 5-10 minutes without being in terrible pain. I have to wonder if all of that contributed to the problems I have with my feet now. And for what? I never had a study with anyone. Certainly never had one get baptized because of my preaching to them. (thank goodness) People don't have a very good opinion of JWs.
Now back to the topic
One of the sites I was posting on has gotten way off track so I have been sharing the BIG NEWS with them. They are stunned!!!!
Here's one recently added:
In my experience....
The organization operates very similar to a cult.
Bad dealings can and have been covered up; those asking honest questions are branded and sometimes shunned; it tends to attract those that are either emotionally disfunctional or wounded; it has more than its share of power seekers and predatory people; it also has its share of those that honestly seek to believe in something bigger and better than what we have seen of mankind to date.
That said, evaluate the individual in front of you, not the name of the organization.
If you do not wished to be bothered by their visits, do as I did and notify the local congregation to place your address under a "Do Not Call Upon" list that they have for the individual territory maps. And if that doesn't work, (didn't for me 1st time) my suggestion of a restraining order did get their attention.
Lee, it really does help when ex-JWs shed light (no pun intended here, really) on issues concerning the WTS and their problems. It innoculates the listeners, and the scandals are so amazing that soap operas are dull in comparison. I'm not surprised your readers were stunned at hearing the Big News!
bebu
Some comments I received on the BBC board :-
" I hate it when ones religious beliefs are thrust upon people"
"They produce their own version of the Bible"
"I suppose they are probably right but I never have time to listen"
"Always sombre and earnest, they refuse to debate on anything basis than their own premises"
"I have friends who were JV's and were made to door knock when they did not want to. They never had birthdays or christmas until they left the church, which they were made to feel guilty about. I don't want saving either, I'll live how I choose. "
"They are more intransigent but less pushy than Mormons."
"Once new a Joe Hoover,he was a plasterer.Wasnt very religious though,always swearing and drinking.Fell off a scaffold in 1984."
"I used to work for a small family company where the family were JW's.All but 2 employee were JW's.
The business was having a real bad time (it has now ceased trading)and the MD's son turned to drink,and the brother in law reported him to the church elders,instead of offering support they disowned him and would not speak with him.This resulted in the break up of his marriage and the loss of his buisness.I was 1 of the two employees who was not a JW but we both felt that we were being groomed to join.I offered to go to a JW church meeting if they visited my local church,this offer was declined. In the end I left the business.
If a JW comes to my door now -I invite them in for a theological discusion but most just decline.
PS just to confirm one of your other letters,I had several discussions about the need to call on people during weekends and in the evenings,all JW's are expected to fill in call sheets (like sales people) to identify good prospects !!!!
bebu
Lee, it really does help when ex-JWs shed light (no pun intended here, really) on issues concerning the WTS and their problems. It innoculates the listeners, and the scandals are so amazing that soap operas are dull in comparison. I'm not surprised your readers were stunned at hearing the Big News!
Good point. I have seen that word "innoculation before. Good point. The more people are innoculated the less chance they will get caught up in it.
They are pulling out all kinds of things now. They have posted Norris and Love and silentlambs websites. I now have pages of posts of links they want to give to me.
There is also a MOrmon posting on the board. Seems they are doing the same thing to her. She does NOT like it too much for some reason
This is what I have so far from one site...in a couple days it should pick up!
Well... I used to date one, but could you make the question a little bit mores sepcific? Are you referring to their views in general as a group or are you asking about dating someone who is Jehovah's witness? Focus the scope of your question a bit and it will make it a bit easier to answer it. -Kromson Knight
Back when I was in High School I was marching in an anti-Vietnam war march when a JW tried to hand my buddy a copy of Awake. My friend's response was a polite "No thank you. I already have an alarm clock". Left the JW totally non-plussed.
I am almost (but not quite) ashamed to tell this story. After High School a friend and I were sharing a house. We both worked night jobs and tended to sleep in rather late. One day, in the late forenoon, a sweet little old JW lady called at the door just as I was getting ready to leave the house, for something or other. I invited her in and asked her to take a seat. I then excused myself for a moment, went out the back door, got in the car and drove off. Left her sitting by her lonesome in the front room. Shortly after I left, my roomate got up and wandered out into the front room wearing nothing but his BVDs. This guy was rather unprepossessing at his best, but first thing in the morning, strolling about in his jockey shorts, he was an absolute nightmare. The old lady jumped, he jumped, she screamed, he screamed, she made a flying exit out the front door while he did a full tilt boogie in the opposite direction. Too bad I couldn't have figured out some way to leave and still stick around to witness my handiwork. BTW, she never came back.
There are a few JW's who do the rounds banging on doors where I live. They don't get a lot of joy as there are an awful lot of holiday homes in this area, I often see them standing at holiday homes waiting ages for a reply. I used to politely tell them that it was a holiday home they were waiting at, but gave this up when I got no word of thanks or acknowledgement, just a kind of soulful stare.
They don't come to my house anymore, I think that a polite "I'm not interested please go away", eventually got through. That and they're scared of my dog, even though he's a big softie, when someone is at the door, he stands behind me howling. He just wants to get out and say hello, but I can understand people being scared of him.
The only thing I really know about JW's is the blood transfusion thing and that they don't gamble. A girl at my high school was a JW and I recall she really made herself unpopular because she would always tell the truth about things that had happened, when the rest of us would never see anything.
I have read extensively about the JWs, partly because of the occasional friendship that occurs. Of course most of my life I have had an interest in comparative theology, etc. etc....
To cut to the chase, I think that all strict religious belief is a security blanket. People feel insecure without a graspable concept of a God that gives their lives meaning and importance. The more insecure they are, the more they need a tight box to hold their beliefs. A God who is all down on paper like a legal contract is controllable, therefore more comforting.
Insecurity is the cause of arrogance. The more self-centered a person is, the more insecure you can assume that person to be. Obviously, then, since the JWs have a very tight system of belief, they attract insecure individuals and will be seen as arrogant.
More to be pitied? Yes, but all such security-blanket cults are a dangerous tarpit. Hitler was insecure. All we can do is try to be aware of where our ideas are really coming from.
The witnessing is a nuisance, but their position on blood transfusions places them in the category of child neglectors of the worst kind.
The kind that just want to believe, and, possibly, tell you about your faith? Those are fine with me.
The kind that like to tell you why you're going to hell if you don't listen? Not so fine with me.
My niece's niece by marriage married a JW. His father and mother are also JW's and the old man drinks goes to the gambling boats and loses all his paycheck on a regular basis and has on more than one occassion beat the hell out of his wife because she tried to keep him from taking her paycheck and depleting the bank account to gamble. They got Jessica out of bed after she had worked another double shift, the fourth that week and treated her to a harangue, along with several members of the Kingdom Hall, about a woman is suppossed to be subservient to her husband and that she had to hand over every penny she had to him and keep her mouth shut about it. And they wonder why she left him after only 6 months of marriage. This is not typical of everyone of the JW's, but I know of some other cases like that. Not all of them drink and gamble. Not all of them beat their wives. But they are all knocking on doors and do not like to take no for an answer. And I agree on the subject of the blood transfusions. Too many children have died because they weren't gibven the proper medical treatment, and the court order came too late. If an informed adult does not agree to one that is one thing. If a child is in danger that's another.
And I don't think that anyone will go to hell because they don't believe my way.(Catholic) And I hate the ones who try to make you defend your beliefs when there is no point in it. I don't believe in the things that you believe in, so let me alone. I'm not a pagan or a heretic. And I don't think you are either.
Originally posted by *omitted*:
I don't believe in the things that you believe in, so let me alone. I'm not a pagan or a heretic.Even if you were, it would be your choice, and nobody has the right to pester you about it.
My mum was a JW....She was baptised over 4 yrs ago now and last year she had an affair outside of her marriage to a guy 14 yrs younger than her and because her and my Step-dad are seperated and don't live together and they no longer engage in sexual intercourse, they are no longer 'man and wife' in that sense....Any ways, my mum had an affair and she got, what I call 'debaptised' just because she had an affair with someone 14 yrs younger than her....
My mother in law loves it when missionaries knock on her door. She is a Unitarian Universalist, and tries to convert them.
When I was younger, every time the JWs would come to the door (it was the same couple every week) my mom would make up a vegetable and cracker tray and my dad would invite them in for a coffee and they'd sit and have a nice visit for an hour or so, then the JWs would leave, and then the next week they'd come back and the same thing would happen. I was really young, so i don't remember if they actually got around to discussing theology, but they always left their magazines, and my dad would read them, though he was never tempted to convert. Then one day the couple who would come were in a car accident and after they recoevered, they didn't go out driving to people's houses anymore, and we never really saw them again, though I remember mom taking us kids to see them after they got out of the hospital. I still remember them as really kind people.
After they stopped coming, though, other JWs would come and they would be kind of cold towards us, and condescending and sometimes pushy. It wasn't like they wanted us to necessarily believe what they believed, but more that they pushed us into considering their religion. IMO, when you are happy in your own religion, or even lack of religion, you shouldn't have to be harangued every week to consider changing your beliefs.
Then a few years later, I remember getting into a big discussion about the Bible and the different interpretations of it at our other house, and i enjoyed the debate, but afterwards my brothers teased me mercilessly and I tended to avoid answering the door after that if it was JWs. I am atheistic, so there was no chance of them converting me, but I still enjoy listening to other people's perspectives about religion.\
So to answer your question, some JWs I find to be polite and interesting to talk to, and others I find pushy and "in-your-face". On the whole, though, they have mostly been polite and friendly.
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I don't mind someone approaching me and asking if I want to hear more, or whatever, but if I say no, I mean it! Pestering me isn't going to make me more inclined to listen.![[Wink]](http://ecfans.com/forums/wink.gif "title")
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