by stillAwitness 61 Replies latest jw friends

  • Confession

    Glad to have found this thread. I've been coping with my own awakening from the WTS sleep, and haven't been able to dedicate the time needed to really explore this issue. But I can't believe no one threw this scripture out...

    2 Peter 3:13

    13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.

    Love to get your comments. Thanks in advance.

  • Undecided

    I wonder what age you would be to be perfect if you didn't grow old and die. It sure wouldn't be 70 at today's aging, I know that much.

    Ken P.

  • knothead34

    great scriprure confession. I hadn't thought of that one. I knew that there were more than 3 "paradise earth" scriptures in the entire bible, but I didn't have time to find them all(at work). I do have hope of a earthly paradise, but even if there's not one, I just hope that there is something else, regardless if it's in heaven or on earth.

  • JH

    And the wolf will actually reside for a while with the male lamb, and with the kid the leopard itself will lie down, and the calf and the maned young lion and the well-fed animal all together; and a mere little boy will be leader over them. 7 And the cow and the bear themselves will feed; together their young ones will lie down. And even the lion will eat straw just like the bull. 8 And the sucking child will certainly play upon the hole of the cobra; and upon the light aperture of a poisonous snake will a weaned child actually put his own hand. 9 They will not do any harm or cause any ruin in all my holy mountain; because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters are covering the very sea.

    Is this for heaven? Don't think there will be any animals up there.

  • DaCheech

    Hey JH, and All!

    When I have a talk to do in KH, I have learned that when I cut and paste (the parrot method) from the WT's book, I get the most "Hey brother cheech, that was a heck of a great talk!". this tells us two things:

    1) no proof needed in conving talk, just blabber what is written in those WT's

    2) why go through all that work, when you can get a talk done in 10 minutes using the WT Cd-rom

    I'm sure that brother doing that talk regularly attends this board, and probably doesn't believe a word he has said, but he just goesthrough the motions, and probably said this same talk 2doz times already in diffrent halls.

  • IronClaw

    In reply to earlier posts, You have to couple with Mt 8:11 Heb Chapter 11 which confirms that Abraham was looking forward to a heavenly hope. God making a city for him. As far as 2 Pet 3:10-13 You have to reason on the scripture. It says New heaven and a New earth ( Where rightousness is to dwell ) The Heavens are perfect. Rightousness already dwells there. There is no need for a New Heavens. This scripture obviously is symbolic of something else. Use your thinking ability! I know the WTS doesn't want you to think for yourself, thats why your having problems with their doctrine. Good luck. It all comes down to interpretation. Bottom line.

  • AuldSoul


    The design of the human body that they point to is true for MANY other animals as well. Pretty much all animals die of old age (if nothing else kills them first) for the same reason, telomeres shorten to the point of creating imperfect copis of cells or failing to create copies of cells. Humans are not designed to live forever to any greater degree than a lion, or an otter, or a field mouse.

    It is another example of using quasi-scientific speech to draw attention to facts that have NOTHING whatsoever to do with the point to be proven and state, without any basis in fact, that the point to be proven is proved by the unrelated facts. It is called sophistry.

    The essential claim of sophistry is that the actual logical validity of an argument is irrelevant (if not non-existent); it is only the ruling of the audience which ultimately determine whether a conclusion is considered "true" or not. By appealing to the prejudices and emotions of the judges, one can garner favorable treatment for one's side of the argument and cause a factually false position to be ruled true.
    Wikipedia: Sophism

    Since there is no opponent viewpoint presented and since the consensus conclusion that whatever is said is true before presenting any argument in favor of a particular viewpoint, is could be argued that all information from the Watchtower Society is sophistic. But in the particular example you brought up, the sophistic nature of the argumentation is easy to detect with only a cursory examination.


  • stillAwitness

    Still it goes back to what the orginal plan that God had intended for mankind.

    It's a proven fact, the WTS teachings are mostly all lies. But were they on to something on this one? Maybe there are people on here still a bit bitter from the DUBS and so just can't admit that this one teaching just may be fact?

    It just doesn't seem to add up the God would change his mind all of a sudden just because Adam and Eve messed up.

  • AuldSoul


    Please cite the Scripture where God said Adam or Eve would live forever if they didn't eat the fruit. The "original plan" is a fiction Jehovah's Witnesses made up, it isn't in the Bible.


  • Satanus


    Do you think that heaven could be a paradise? Why wouldn't animal spirits go to heaven?


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