Spectrum, I find your argument to be ridiculous........silly quotes. Denzil Washington,''The Bone Collector''?...don't just pick out the ones to back your (very silly)theory
Does the King Kong movie have racist overtones?
by enlightenedcynic 97 Replies latest social entertainment
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funkyderek
Spectrum, clearly I over-estimated your intelligence. It's entirely my mistake as you gave me no reason to judge you capable of understanding a rational argument. I don't know whether your unsupported opinions are due mainly to ignorance and conditioning or whether you truly have a racist agenda. Either way, I don't need to waste my time or yours trying to explain simple ideas to you. So I'll wish you a Merry Christmas and hope that some day you'll find a movie that portrays black people in a manner you deem acceptable.
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Spectrum
Cuckoo,
Regarding Training Day I was commenting on the stereotyping of Latinos.
Like I said I don't have a problem which non whites being given hardnut violent roles, my issue is that Hollywood over does it to the point where it becomes stereotypical racist. And racist is what that place is.
My Argument is silly you say. Tell that to my black friends, educated upstanding members of white society. Ask them how they feel everytime a big Hollywood movie shows and black person in bad light especially when being watched by the white society within which they must live.
I think you need to check your motives for not wanting to see what is glaringly obvious. -
Abaddon
Spectrum
This reminds me of a stance I took in an essay. There's a popular school of thought in Literary studies that certain authors, like Rudyard Kipling, are racist.
Just as 'sexist' loses it's meaning the further back in time you go, as there was no 'correct' attitude to compare it with amongst the tide of misogyny, so to does 'racist'. A book written at a time when most people (even those who thought of black people in a positive light) would be called racist by modern standards will tend to show some of those unreconstructed attitudes.
Also, books and films do not always express the attitude of the author, but may present reportage or fictionalisation of actual events and attitudes.
Thus to call Rudyard Kipling racist is absurd; the cases typically cited are characters in a book expressing what they thought by word or action. Does that mean he thought the same or acted in that way? The clincher in that instance was me being able to show examples from his books where a non-white (for example a Seikh) expressed historically representative but racist attitudes towards Hindus and Muslims AND also said that a certain English officer could ONLY BE BETTER IF HE WERE A SEIKH.
This showed convincingly that Rudyard may, compared to today, have had some racist attitudes, but that he mostly created characters like those in the world he saw around him; reportage is not racism. And would a real racist present the thoughts of a Seikh batman regarding himself as being superior to his English officer in a completely sincere and non-critical fashion? Nope.
Likewise the portrayal of racism in a book or movie, or of racist attitudes, or of a population being more poor or more criminal than average is not automatically indicative of racism. You're allowed not to like it but it's not automatically racist.
"You missed the point. It's not racist to portray things as they are, even if the way things are is due to racism."
In which case Geobels could be justified and accepted as the norm. Right?Wrong. Portrayal of Goebels is not justification or acceptence of his actions as a norm. .
You cite LA Confidential as an example. Hmmmm... how come two corrupt white policemen isn't a racist portrayl? Is the rape scene in Red Sun or Last Exit to Brooklyn or The Accused racist towards whites as all the rapists in those movies are white? Is the Godfather racist towards Italians? Schindler's List towards German?
I know there is a lot of poverty in the US but this thread is about racist portrayals.
You miss my point. If (as is so) black people are more likely than white to be a/ poor, and b/ have a criminal record, then a portrayal of areas with large black populations as being poor and criminal is simply reflecting society.
The fact that black people are more still likely than white to be a/ poor, and b/ have a criminal record is a sign that despite efforts, in practise society in the USA is still racist even if far fewer individuals are racist than thirty years ago.
I think addressing the issues that prevents true parity in society no matter what race one is is FAR more important than assembling a list of movies someone can assert are racist.
To argue presenting something (with allowances for the medium and artistic license) that is a fair representation of some parts of society is in itself racist is to ignore the racism is not in the protrayal of such a thing (as it exists), but in there being such a thing to portray.
I mean look;
NO, YOU missed the point, a black man in jail AGAAAAAAAAAAAAIN. Give it up Funky
Okay, you going to tell me black people are NOT disproportionately represented in American prisons? Well, you can if you want, but you'd be wrong. It is a fact. Rather than saying a thing about this awful fact, you talk about movies!!!!
I've not seen Training Day (I checked the IMDb as I wasn't sure if you were saying there WAS a movie about crack gangs run by a group of Harvard graduates who pimp Ivy League hookers). However, look at the following list and tell me how many had corrupt white police officers and how many had corrupt black police officers; http://www.imdb.com/keyword/police-corruption/
... even if some have no permeditated intention the damage that is done is great and unforgivable.
Damage? There's MORE damage from the social ills that are portrayed than in the protrayal of social ills. And the existnece of social ills is where the real racism lies.
I grew up believing that Native Americans were the savages where as in fact whites were the savages.
I'd figured that one out by age seven (33 years ago). About the same age I realised that Germans were now not the enemy. Kids drawing ignorant conclusions is not an indication that which they draw their conclusions from is racist.
" And if we made a movie about drug lords in 1870, they would be British - read up on the Opium War. At the moment drug lords ARE often South American."
I've watched quite a few latin and italian made movies and non had anything to do with drugs lords and mafia I imagine a few do. These are the very societies hollywood wishes to represent. It's not just about what goes on in these societies as you contend but it's the racist spin that Hollywood wishes to apply.
So, if (as is a fact) many 'Drug Lords' are Latin American, we can't make movies about that as it will be racist to portray reality that way even if reality is that way? Does it mean the homophobia amongst the Afro-Carribian community (in say the United Kingdom) cannot be portrayed in a movie, as to do so would be racist?
I heard that very few mammals were caught out by the disaster. Their instincts told them to run for the lives.
So, are you telling me Europeans are stupider than animals? OH MY GOD!!!
See, you're not being racist, but I can easily take you as being racist.
."Yeah, well at the 3rd International Artistic Convention in 1908, it was decided for the next hundred years Jews would be given all the good parts as they were bored with Fagin, Shylock, and all the other fun fun roles that had been written for them in the past millenia. Get over it, the agreement lapses in 2008. I think gypsies are up for the next hundred years of good parts, or is it the gays (remember only gay Jews could already get good parts)?"
Well they certainly stuck to that
I do hope you realise that was humour.
Poor rizzo!
Now that's OFFENSIVE. Some typing turd comes and asserts documents (that were proven forgeries in the 19th Century) are proof of a world-wide conspiracy of Jews, that they were trying to destroy Germany and were going to wrest control so Hitler's actions in rounding them up were justified (a lie), that there was no plan to kill Jews on an industrial scale (despite documentary evidence), that most died from poor food and sanitary conditions (which in the turds mind made it okay even though the German soldiers guarding them lived okay), and that all proof of gas chambers is forged (if it was forged it was 'forged' by the Nazi party, built and used), and no where near as many died as claimed, maybe only half-a-million (despite the fact the number of Jews missing after the war matches the estimate of Jewish Holocaust vicitms very well).
You moan about movies that may be seen by some people as racist and then sympathise with someone pushing out racist rhetoric, hate speech, known lies, who gets booted for his racist attitudes! So, it's okay to repeat lies about Jews and encourage others to believe lies about Jews, but not to have black people portrayed in any negative light in a movie, even if it is a supportable fictionalisation of how society is today?
Isn't that a racist attitude? Seriously man, explain this to me, you have my attention.
There is nothing odd about it. It's a fact of hollywood.
If you make anti-semetic remarks out of ignorance it's bad enough... congratulations, you've gone from a possibly over-enthusiastic critic of the portrayal of black people in Hollywood movies to sympathising with someone Zeig Heiling. Not a very logical standpoint...
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Spectrum
" So I'll wish you a Merry Christmas and hope that some day you'll find a movie that portrays black people in a manner you deem acceptable."
I'm sure there are but there are far too many of the others.
I think if you put your brain back in that skull of yours you'ed quickly realise who the has the racist agenda. Merry Christmas -
G Money
I dunno. Be black to understand? I bet more of your black ancestors sold black people into slavery than mine did. There have been white slaves. Why be like Sharpton or Jesse? The race card is lame, stop looking for racism everywhere and I promise to stop looking for the face of the virgin mary in grilled cheese sandwiches.
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Abaddon
Spectrum Tell that to my black friends, educated upstanding members of white society. Ask them how they feel everytime a big Hollywood movie shows and black person in bad light especially when being watched by the white society within which they must live.
Can I have a black person comment on this? I mean, all my friends when growing up were black or at least not white. My stepson is black. My boss is black. But I am sure anything I say will be disregarded as I am not black... -
MidwichCuckoo
I think you need to check your motives for not wanting to see what is glaringly obvious.
Hmmmm - as I recall,this was about KING KONG - NOT racist. Hollywood depicts as it sees fit - ALL colours in EVERY role. DON'T pick out the ones that back how you want to think.
And DON'T insult me-''motives''?
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fleaman uk
LA Confidential - Blacks raping a white girl white man kills the bad black guys. That's what you got out of that film?"
That's what the put in that film. A film about bad tempered and corrupt cops padded with black rapists of white women. Open your eyes Funky.Spectrum
Dont grab those straws too tight whatever you do.La confidential (using your example)had as its biggest villain an Irish/American cop.Are we getting all worked up about Irish representation?You know,good natured labourers,drunkards,fiddle playing twee simpletons,bombers or the only "goodies"on the Titanic?
I dont see Funkyderek getting worked up over this?Because he knows that though that is often a hollywood view..its not the case in real life.Im English,but im not a sneering,cruel rascist intent on being a super villain!I couldnt give a crap about Alan Rickman,jason Issaacs,Ray Winstone,Patrick mcgoohan etc always being portrayed as the bad guys!
Jesus that chip must weigh a ton.
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bull01lay
I think this topic should have been started in the 'Humour' section....
Anyone wanting or looking to be offended / play the victim, will find a reason to take offence at something, no matter how slight or trivial.
Is Hollywood forcing a 'black' man to play the role of a 'gangsta rapper' or any other such stereotype that can be attributed - No! - Actors are clammering to play the parts, and getting paid handsomely for doing it. Exploitation indeed !!!!
I don't wish to take anything away from the serious accusations of racism, and counts of racism, that do still unfortunately occur. But reading racism into films like this, and other 'political correctness gone mad' claims of racism, only serves to desensitize people to its existence and seriousness.
If people are going to keep crying wolf every time their 'over sensitive racist nerves' are touched, eventually the worlds gonna stop listening....
Bull!