Question About Matthew 13:24

by lynnmelo 17 Replies latest jw friends

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  blindersoff

  Luke's account

  (Luke 12:42-48)
  42 And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time? 43 Happy is that slave, if his master on arriving finds him doing so! 44 I tell YOU truthfully, He will appoint him over all his belongings. 45 But if ever that slave should say in his heart, ‘My master delays coming,’ and should start to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that slave will come on a day that he is not expecting [him] and in an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and assign him a part with the unfaithful ones. 47 Then that slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line with his will will be beaten with many strokes. 48 But the one that did not understand and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. .
  If
  vs 43 ( FD slave) =JW's
  Vs 45 (evil slave ) = religion 'A'
  Vs 47 (many strokes ) = religion 'B'
  Vs 48 (few strokes ) = religion 'C'

  
  Since we realize that Jesus was referring to various courses that could that could be taken by any individual slave, we see why it is not necessary to try to find specific religions or oganizations today that correspond to these 4 slaves.

  
  But if we are going to pin an identity on one, then who are the others??
  

  Also we would need to find what organization was pictured by the man who tore down his barns & built bigger ones.

  B
• 

  Oroborus21

  lynnmelo,

  Would you be interested in reading a paper I have written on the FDS doctrine? If so PM me with your email and I will be happy to send it to you.

  -Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
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  AlmostAtheist

  You've been given some good ammunition, but be prepared. JW's are like zombies, you can't kill 'em. They'll just keep smiling and keep saying the same things over and over.

  which witnesses believe were ALL annointed ---btw, I've never asked how they know this.

  Interesting thing to consider: How many faithful, first century Christians were there? Acts reports a few baptisms involving thousands at a time. Are we to believe that in Jesus 3 year ministry and the 70 years or so before the alleged "great apostasy" set in, that less than 144,000 people became Christians? They either had an absurdly low rate of growth (despite a few 5-8 thousand baptism spurts recorded in Acts), a fair whack of those 1st century christians weren't faithful, or the 144,000 doctrine is wrong.

  You can guess where my money lies... :-)

  Of all the symbolism in Revelation, why is 144,000 taken as literal? Particularly when the 12,000 of each tribe (Revelation 7) is admitted to be figurative? Seems a little arbitrary, eh?

  But in the end, you aren't going to sway them. They will continue to believe it and will be astounded that you could possibly have gone over two books, been to countless meetings, and STILL be so BLIND as to not see the truth. Be ready, it'll likely get a bit ugly.

  And of course, they'll ask you, "If Jehovah isn't using Jehovah's Witnesses to fulfill the preaching work command, then who IS he using?" Good question, but it isn't material to this discussion, so don't let them sidetrack you with it. (If he is using them, then the work is doomed to fail. More people are born every day than are reached by their preaching work every day. They are fighting a losing battle that gets worse every single day.)

  Have fun!

  Dave
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  AuldSoul

  compare Paul, Peter, etc. (i.e., the early leaders of the church) to the modern-day GB and say that they taught the early congregations

  Nothing wrong with her believing that, it actually helps you in the line of reasoning I presented. You can look puzzled and ask, "So was John lying in 1 John 2, or are we confusing the fact that they did teach with something they had to do or were appointed to do? John didn't say no one could teach them, he just said no one needed to teach them. And that's what the Governing Body claims, they claim they are needed by God's sheep as their instructors and that they were appointed by God to do that."

  I think it would be worth a shot. You'd have all those answers sitting there for her to think about.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  myelaine

  Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples approached him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field." He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man; the field is the world, and the good seed are the children of the kingdom; the weeds are the children of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are collected and burned up with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and they will throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Let anyone with ears listen

  dear Narkissos,

  perhaps the weeds were collected into/by the fire? like a moth to the flame, so to speak.

  And I heard another voice from heaven saying, Come out of her my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. (Rev 18:4)

  love michelle

  this comes to mind as well...Therefore the curse has devoured the earth, and those who dwell in it are desolate. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men are left. (Isaiah 24:6)
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  jwfacts

  Lynnmelo, you have really hit the nail on the head. To determine if a teaching is correct you need to understand the underlying premise. The underlying premise to all the unusual JW teachings is that Jehovah directs the GB. To question that and prove that premise wrong is to prove the WTS to be wrong.

  I would not get hung up on Mat 13:24, it is a vague parable that can be interpretted any which way. Anyone can apply it to themselves. How do we not know it was referring to the Mormons or the 7 day adventists etc. I would discuss two things, has there been evidence of a 1900 yo F&D slave. Have they proven to be guided by holy spirit in this century?

  I posted info at http://jwfacts.com/index_files/slave.htm about the F&D slave and the concept of an organisation. Many JWs will say that the Watchtower has identified other worshippers throughout history, so I did some research toward the end of the article to show none of them listed in the Watchtower were worshipping God the JW way. Ask "Who was the F&D slave directly before Russell?"

  The other thing to do is to determine if holy spirit is guiding the GB now. Why did they get so many date prophecies wrong? (1799, 1874, 1881, 1914, 1925) Why did they say we should worship Jesus until the 1950's, but disfellowship you for it now? How come Jehovah guided Russell to write entire chapters about the pyramids if that was wrong? How come Russell said superior Authorities are the goverments, Rutherford said it was Jehovah, Knorr changed it back to being Jehovah? When will we be sure it is truth?

  You know the F&D slave did not always exist and is not directed by holy spirit. Maybe your study conductor will come to the same conclusion. Then you can study with her the truth about things such as the blood issue, that Christianity is about Jesus, why use of the name Jehovah is not required to be acceptable to God, why disfellowshipping is wrongly practiced by JW's.
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  lynnmelo

  Okay, I just spent 10 minutes typing a detailed response to everyone here, and when I hit "send," "page not found" appeared, and I lost my post. Arrgh! Anyway, in short, I thank you all for the excellent responses.

  Auldsoul, I finally understand your point now (I should have been the one writing it down--LOL!), and it is a good one.

  Dave, I've often thought of the fact that it would nearly be impossible not to have fulfilled that 144,000 by now. I definitely think they're wrong on that point.

  Jwfacts, some of the things you brought up are what initially convinced me that the WTS isn't the conduit for the one and only "truth." The child molestation was a big eye-opener for me as well. I'm sure if I brought this up to my bible study conductor she would just say what she's said many times before: "They [the GB] aren't perfect men." They always say this when they want to excuse a failed prophecy or a bad decision. Why don't they believe this when it comes to the GB laying down rules to govern every aspect of one's life?

  What's so frustrating about the JW's is that they're so sure they're right. If you bring up a legitimate question, particularly after they've already given you the company line about it, they'll just give you this pitying look as if to say, "She just doesn't want to accept the truth." That drives me nuts!
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  TopHat

  I simply can't can't support an organization that covers-up for Pedophiles. To do so would would make me a part the cover-up and my hands would be as dirty as the Govening Body's hands.