Thanks for the reply Van,
It's disturbing to me to read about the sacrifices of other Jehovah's Witnesses added to the sacrifices I saw made by Witnesses and those added to the sacrifices I made myself for the cause of Jehovah's Witnesses. It was an interesting picture painted by the Watch Tower Society. We could all make sacrifices and we would all be martyrs and we would see our punishers punished, there would be justice, and we would be rewarded with eternal life, a return to youth free from death in the material world of our dreams. We were even taught to dream.
It might have been worth the pain and sacrifice IF it had been true. But it wasn't. It was a guess . . . speculation. Then after the Society realized it was all error, they carried it on. That's when it became a lie.
My warm regards and best wishes,
Need help! Have you read Randy's books?
by bythesea 31 Replies latest jw friends
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garybuss
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sf
They reject Jesus as the savior. How are they religious? They are a secular book printing , real estate development, and event sponsoring corporation. The Jehovah's Witness people are now both the workers and the customers.
I agree.
It might have been worth the pain and sacrifice IF it had been true. But it wasn't. It was a guess . . . speculation. Then after the Society realized it was all error, they carried it on. That's when it became a lie.
Exactly. But WHY did they carry it on? What was to be continually gained by carrying on with the lie, even after they realized it was such?
WHY DO THEY STILL CARRYING ON THESE LIES?? What are they trying to gain?
It is so maddening trying to figure this out.
Welcome Van Gogh.
sKally
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Van Gogh
“It is so maddening trying to figure this out.” Why are people still Scientologists, Mormons, Seventh-Day Adventists or Islamic fundamentalists? Think about it. From the outside these religions are all just as weird or even more so, but we still keep on thinking we were/are more clever than the others: humility. You're either raised in one of these religions, as many of us were in the bOrg, OR you fall for the sales pitch: It's the first rule of great advertising and good copywriting: You first appeal to a desire or fear (sell to the heart: death, loss, belonging); Then you paint the picture of a promise in someone’s mind (benefits: paradise/eternal life); You have now already sold to the heart, so you have to make your prospect feel good about what it is going to cost him by summing up the features of the product (rationalization) - you have now sold to the head as well; The customary risk reversal or money-back guarantee is the free bible study Now you close the deal (baptism) Now you have compromised yourself and you stay in the dead-end job because you cannot afford to lose the pension plan or you have now joined the wartime army you cannot desert because you’ll get shot (as you will for talking to the enemy: disfellowshipping): All age-old tried and tested mechanisms for social control. In fact the bOrg isn’t really all that special at all. We all wanted to be The Chosen; We all wanted to conform to a group; We all wanted eternal life in paradise, so many of us did not have to worry about getting a life; It was too good to pass up, so we all compromised and looked the other way (and many of us still do) AND DID NOT FOR ALL THOSE YEARS SERIOUSLY INVESTIGATE because if so many others believe(d) all this stuff, then somehow it must have been OK. People (yes, we) tend to want to look the other way, as the population here in the Netherlands did when 110.000 Jews were sent quietly off to their deaths during the Second World War, so the innocent bystanders had to invent the myth of the resistance who sheltered Anne Frank... (and yes, in all fairness, we were sincerely pursuing the meaning of life itself, like an orphan who will set out on a lifelong search for his/her biological parents, identity, as sense of belonging, homecoming, like any other psychologically healthy human being). It is not much different from the system of the German Democratic Republic (see the German movie "Goodbye Lenin"). People always want to be sold - want to be sold lies by politicians. People do it all the time: we did it all the time to ourselves... AND THERE WILL ALWAYS BE OTHERS THAT WILL BE ALL TOO HAPPY TO PERPETUATE THIS BLISSFUL STATE OF IGNORANCE FROM THE TOP DOWN. It's too good an opportunity to pass up for any aspiring elite. And that is why I so admire the whistleblowers who were willing to take all the flack to make a stand for the TRUTH... who's books and research we now have been able to read, so as to spread the underground gospel ourselves in the catacombs of the social surroundings we were forced to trade in for all those who we had to shun out of our lives because they were not susceptible. Healing is to start taking/admitting responsibility - to take charge: We were actors and perpetrators ourselves (except for all the lonely old sisters who sit in the back of the hall – and will be sitting there till their death because they truly have nowhere to go): We constituted the system; We were the bOrg, the abusers... we will have to start to face up and to start forgiving ourselves… but we were still abused.
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Goldminer
Very well said Van Gogh.Quite an analysis of religion and the WTS in general.In my years as a jw,I've seen power-hungry freaks who had reached the height of their might at home,would never get a supervisory job at work,but the congregation offered up a whole new arena to reach out for this power.And these individuals always seemed to gravitate to the top under the guise of zeal and Jehovah's spirit.
I personally believe attitudes start at the top and work their way down and it's no different in the WTS.
Goldminer
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AuldSoul
I don't know of one Jehovah's Witness who has accepted Jesus as their savior.
Pleased to meet you, Garybuss! Of course, they're ABOUT to throw me out, so I probably don't count.
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garybuss
It's the perfect scam. Call medical care . . . religious behavior, call employment . . . religious behavior, call entertainment . . . religious behavior, call protecting child abusers . . . religious behavior, call real estate development . . . religious behavior, and call education . . . religious behavior, and do it all tax free and crime free under the name of religious freedom. It's a beautiful scam.
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Judc
Hi.
I've read those books from Randy you've pointed out and I must say they are excellent choices. The "Refuting" book is an expansion of Randy's online Doctrinal articles. There is material in that book that can't be found online. Much of it is really good.
I thought that the "Truth will set you free" book presented a great biblical justification for Christianity without an organization of imperfect men. It goes into all the major doctrines, and gives some very solid reasoning for the "orthodox" position, as well as deflate many of the WTS arguments. It is not a long book, but gives a nicely tied-together summary of WHY an orthodox viewpoint is justified. I would reccommend reading this before the other doctrinal books.
The "refuting" book goes into a greater level of detail on various subjects. It doesn't always give you all the "answers" to refute JWs point-by-point, but gives a good solid background on each topic that the JWs tout as "the Truth". It's a very good reference for a particular topic of study.
"Reasoning from the Scriptures with JWs" by Ron Rhodes is another really great book to look up how to question a JW's position regarding a particular scripture. There are some EXCELLENT questions in that book which I have completely stumped JWs with. Even after they go back to their CD, talk to elders, etc.
So as for doctrine, I would read the following, in this order: "Truth will set you free", "Refuting", "Reasoning from the Scriptures w/JWs", then some of David Reed's verse by verse books.
BUT BEFORE ANY DOCTINAL STUFF, I would reccommend reading "Combatting Cult Mind Control" by Steven Hassan. Check out that guide on Randy's site called "how to become an expert in witnessing to JWs" or something like that. It lists Hassan's book as the very FIRST step to follow. I learned the hard way that I would have put myself so much further ahead, spending much less wasted effort, had I started with that book.
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sf
Hello Judc,
Welcome to the forum.
sKally
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bythesea
WELCOME Judec!! And thanks for your synopsis of Randy's books and the order in which would be most beneficial to read them. I have felt like I've been spinning my wheels this past year, reading lots of online stuff refuting the org., but not getting much in the way of doctrinal help to refute the JW teachings...maybe I should be reading Hassains book on Cults and Mind Control....since I'm still attending some meetings it would be good to recognize their techniques when I hear them!
Van .... My heart ached for you when I read the account of your family....I hope you are healing as you are attempting to fade away and it sounds like you are able to see everything more clearly now. Like you, I still think of myself as a Christian....just not a JW!!
Gotta go....bythe sea
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imfreeimfree
Hi Bythesea
Undoubtedly he believes the organization is spirit directed. If he was baptized prior to '86 he was asked to acknowledge this. One of the questions pre-baptism is: “Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization”.
According to the Bible, one false Prophecy makes the speaker a false prophet. Deut 18:22. But how can we trust our eternal destiny to an organization that during its brief time in existence has accumulated such a woeful history of doctrinal contradictions and flip-flops? Failed prophecies concerning 1914, 1915, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1941 and 1975, prove beyond a doubt that it is not spirit directed. Or is the spirit misdirecting??
Since he claims that “they teach the truth from the Bible,” could he locate the scriptures to support the above mentioned claims?
As you know to question the failures or disagree, is to invite chastisement and face disfellowshiping, a virtual cutting off from all your friends and relatives loyal to the organization. He or she is viewed as “one dead”. The emotional suffering produced is incalculable. Yet, Paul did not take any disciplinary action against the minority who choose to associate with the disfellowshipped person in the Corinth congregation.
Sometimes, it is best, for the sake of peace, to back off; provide him with some solid facts, in time those seeds may germinate, and then he will see what you are seeing.
Your statement “I so want my family to know the REAL truth!” resonates well with my wonderful wife and me. How we wish and pray that the eyes of our family may be opened, and that they be freed of the convoluted religion. We have not given up; we will keep on working in delicate ways to help them.
“Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God”. 1 John 4:1. NW.
May you have peace and God’s blessing on your journey.
Christian love.
David
PS. You may wish to check this link where you will find some of the “inspired” statements listed chronologically; it is an eye-opener: http://www.bible.ca/Jw-Prophecy.htm