Are the experiences of unbaptised born-ins of less importance?

by mrsjones5 32 Replies latest jw friends

  • mrsjones5

    That's better. Your post is where it should be. I love that you always are the voice of reason and you're cute too.


  • tijkmo
    I'm no shinking violet and if I have something to say I will.

    then you should take care to understand fully the comment that is made...(ie have you worked out yet that that was not what i was saying at all)

    you may not be violet...but methinks you probably have a somewhat red face

    is there still coffee going

  • diamondblue1974
    you may not be violet...but methinks you probably have a somewhat red face

    If she was mistaken about what you wrote matey it was an honest mistake and I see how it arose...perhaps a coffee together would help resolve it...without any red faces?

  • mrsjones5

    No I'm not red faced...I'm brown faced. Do you have a red face? Stop assuming and playing games, I'm not a child. Speak plainly man!


  • mrsjones5

    If he meant it as a joke in poor taste then he should just say so....
    I'm out of coffee and I'm not fond of tea DB please dont speak for me.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    First: This is a brief list and just off the top of my head. It certainly isn't all I can think of. Issues can and do apply to both groups but I think one group will experience leaving differently than the other group

    Everyone who gets involved with a group like the JWs walks away scarred. Even those who are still in are scarred. They just don't know it yet.

    I'm one of the odd ones whose mother joined when I was 11 - so not a born in but it wasn't my choice either.

    The differences between those who join as adults vs those who were born in are interesting. Both matter. Both have their own issues to deal with - some the same and some harder. I'll try to explain what I think.

    For those who join as adults: This group has a history of development away from the WTS. Their personalities have been already formed. For many different reasons the JWs present information to them that was attractive and met certain needs. I think they have a couple of issues (at least) different than born-ins to deal with after they leave. They may wonder "How could I have believed it all?" This can result in a lot of self doubt (over and above what all xJWs experience). Their guilt may be greater for having got caught up in it and giving up so much. They may have family or extended family that never were JWs. They may have old school friends who might be happy to reconnect with them. They may remember what it was like to celebrate holidays and have a buried socialization that can come out to the world. They may also have enough experience outside of the WT walls that it isn't a scary place to be. Leaving the JWs may not be as difficult as they think. They still have issues to deal. They may be more angry at themselves for getting involved or staying as long as they did. They may also feel more guilt for getting others to join (family and friends).

    For those who were born in: It's all they have ever known. From the time they were born they have been force fed a diet of JW propaganda. They often have limited experience in dealing with people outside the JWs. Their entire identity is tied up with being a JW. If they have made friends at school the contact is still limited and therefore thneir self identity will also be limited. Leaving also means leaving not just the religion but leaving family and all their friends. Some may have been able to make some friendships on the outside but those who were not able to do this can really struggle to establish a life and their identity. They may not have had the opportunity for higher education. Due to all of the rules they may not have the experience of real life. Even decision making can be overwhelming because they have never had the opportunity to explore skills and interests. And never having had any experience with freedom they may have a real problem in setting boundaries and defining healthy limits. They may experience more anger at parents for having raised them in such a closed environment. I think this group experiences the push to get baptized very differently than the join as adults. Pressure comes from parents, friends and the elders. Those expectations can be very difficult to ignore. The stories I've read here about the pressure from others to meet certain expectations is enormous. Little kids want to please their parents. They need to feel good. Sadly the only thing these kids are allowed to feel good about is JW related. They don't get a break anywhere.

    I know I am going to post this and think of other things.

  • nilfun

    Leoleia had a great post about this a while back:

    It's not been said enough that adults when they start to study are expected to ask questions and evaluate what they have learned, to come to a personal decision of whether it is the "truth". Children are not given the same benefit of the doubt. They are told it is the "truth" before they have any ability to fully understand what is taught, and when their critical thinking starts kicking in during their teenage years and they begin to have honest questions about areas of the doctrine that do not make sense or seem to be contradicted by other facts, IT'S TOO LATE! They would now be questioning years (if not a lifetime) of what their parents, elders, etc. have told them what to believe. "How could you doubt what you've believed your whole life? You've given talks in the TMS and gone door-to-door for years! Just don't leave Jehovah, it'll break our heart." An adult who studies has no obligation until they become baptized; a child is completely expected to get baptized and remain a Witness as a matter of course. Rather than giving children/teens the same freedom to evaluate the "truth" and walk away with no harm done if they decide it isn't the truth, JWs tend to view such natural questioning as dangerous and an excuse to get them into the elders' chamber for some straightening out.

  • avishai

    Without making any judgement over tijkmo's post or intent, I HAVE heard this from others. I think it's a holdover from the JW's congregation clique mentality, and I think it's B.S.

    What, someone who was molested, or abused, and had it covered up, or just plain saw that the JW's were'nt for them and were smart enough, brave enough, or just too screwed up from their experiences, their experiences have less validity because they chose not to take a TWO SECOND BATH? Come on...give me a break. The WTS hurts people involved with it, period. No ones pain is "less" relevant due to not taking the dip. And it's ridiculous to say so.

  • Enigma One
    Enigma One

    Once upon a time in this country we had a thing called "slavery". The slaves that worked in the field toiled from sun up to sun down. These field slaves would call those that worked in the master's quarters "house negros". The field slaves didn't feel like the house slaves worked as hard as they did. Yet these house slaves were usually the ones the master would "have relations with". Guess what? They were all still slaves and treated like dogs.

    Enough said.

  • avishai

    So, are you saying that the baptized, or the unbaptized are the "house negroes"?

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