Why Iraq Is So Desperately Important
I just wonder if we would have been attacked had Clinton still been president??? It seems that Bush has antagonized most of the world. As there was already tension throughout the Muslin population it just opened up the US to this terrorism. We should shore up our own borders and then lend support where needed throughout the rest of the world. Period.
What happened to finding Saudi-born Usama Bin Laden??? What happened to the rebuilding of Afghanistan? Bush considers the Saudi Bin Laden's as family...wonder if that has any effect on the decision not to pursue this too heavily? Wake up people and see this for what it really is!!!! IRAQ DID NOT ATTACK US AND DID NOT HAVE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!!!! We are not over there fighting for what was done to us on 9/11...why can't people see the facts?????
We need to withdraw as soon as possible without leaving the country in complete shambles. If they have a Civil War...well so did this country and many others. They may just have to fight that out on their own and make up their own constitution to live by. Our funds need to be spent on this soil to help our victims rebuild their lives and not keep pouring it into a money-pit. We've lost enough soldiers in this dead-end war. (If they want to keep fighting, send congressmen and senators over there for their tour of duty...I'd like to see the Bush's two daughters sign up!)
I can see that many of you still don't grasp the central point: the world is threatened by the spread of a jihadist suicide cult.
You only have a limited time frame to stop it. If you fail, you may be forced to exterminate 1 billion Muslims on earth - who would
rise up if the US vaporized Mecca and Medina in response to the loss of any major American city. (Congressman Tancredo had to
apologize for openly talking about this).
The New York Times has already reported on Islamic websites now giving regular lessons on nuclear physics to prepare for jihad.
This is not "Sim City". This is not a video game. You can whine and complain about Bush and missing weapons and US mistakes
and any number of other issues -it changes nothing. The central issue of a clash of civilizations is still there - keep in mind the
historical fact that Neville Chamberlain was widely celebrated as a hero - and Churchill was deemed a dead-end pessimist
-until the appeasement of Hitler was exposed as a disaster.
Ok um, i forget. What are we supposed to do, again?
Metatron, I DON'T get how staying in IRAQ is going to solve this issue. Why can't this be addressed on our own soil and a solution devised that would help control terrorism. I totally believe that countries have to be pro-active, but much can be accomplished on a different level than the FAILING war in Iraq. What is it that you think can be done there? This approach isn't working...I'd say it's back to the drawing board!
The 21st century is not, and won't be, your dreamt 21st century nor mine (which are probably very different btw). We'll have to get used to it I guess.
As is pretty clear by now, striking countries in response to transnational "terrorism" reinforces the latter.
Pull the troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Close all US bases around the world. Let the US become isolationist and spend the money saved at home beefing up our defenses here and recruiting more internal security. Let everyone else fight their own wars. Stop donating money to the UN it is just a useles talking shop anyway. Let the UN set up in Geneva ratehr than New York
I saw this on another ex-JW discussion board. I asked the poster if I could repost over here. He said yes. I'm cutting and pasting so the links and whatnot may not be active. But it's the message that's important.
For the hundredth time since the US invaded Iraq, the predictions made by those with access to intelligence have proved less reliable than the predictions made by those without. And, for the hundredth time, the inaccuracy of the official forecasts has been blamed on "intelligence failures".
The explanation is wearing a little thin. Are we really expected to believe that the members of the US security services are the only people who cannot see that many Iraqis wish to rid themselves of the US army as fervently as they wished to rid themselves of Saddam Hussein?
To understand why this failure persists, we must first grasp a reality which has seldom been discussed in print. The United States is no longer just a nation. It is now a religion. Its soldiers have entered Iraq to liberate its people not only from their dictator, their oil and their sovereignty, but also from their darkness. As George Bush told his troops on the day he announced victory: "Wherever you go, you carry a message of hope - a message that is ancient and ever new. In the words of the prophet Isaiah, 'To the captives, "come out," and to those in darkness, "be free".'"
So American soldiers are no longer merely terrestrial combatants; they have become missionaries. They are no longer simply killing enemies; they are casting out demons. Like all those who send missionaries abroad, the high priests of America cannot conceive that the infidels might resist through their own free will; if they refuse to convert, it is the work of the devil, in his current guise as the former dictator of Iraq.
Gradually this notion of election has been conflated with another, still more dangerous idea. It is not just that the Americans are God's chosen people; America itself is now perceived as a divine project. In his farewell presidential address, Ronald Reagan spoke of his country as a "shining city on a hill", a reference to the Sermon on the Mount. But what Jesus was describing was not a temporal Jerusalem, but the kingdom of heaven. Not only, in Reagan's account, was God's kingdom to be found in the United States of America, but the kingdom of hell could also now be located on earth: the "evil empire" of the Soviet Union, against which His holy warriors were pitched. Since the attacks on New York, this notion of America the divine has been extended and refined.
So those who question George Bush's foreign policy are no longer merely critics; they are blasphemers, or "anti-Americans". Those foreign states which seek to change this policy are wasting their time: you can negotiate with politicians; you cannot negotiate with priests. The US has a divine mission, as Bush suggested in previously: "to defend ... the hopes of all mankind", and woe betide those who hope for something other than the American way of life.
The dangers of national divinity scarcely require explanation. Japan went to war in the 1930s convinced, like George Bush, that it possessed a heaven-sent mission to "liberate" Asia and extend the realm of its divine imperium. It would, the fascist theoretician Kita Ikki predicted: "light the darkness of the entire world". Those who seek to drag heaven down to earth are destined only to engineer a hell.
You make valid points about the jihadist suicide cult. But I don't see what Iraq has to do with that.
The jihadist suicide cult doesn't seem to have lost any steam because of our invading Iraq. On the contrary, it's my perception that it only seems to be growing in number and ideological strength.
God only knows how this is all going to play out over the next 10 or 20 years, but it's very difficult for me to imagine any realistic scenario where we'll come out of this pile of shit smelling like a rose.
The recent condemnation delivered to Alzarkowy "or however the hell it is spelled" by his tribal family members due to his being involved in the terrorist explosions that killed so many in Jorden, also pointed to the religious nature of the terrorists.
The family plainly stated that he was no longer welcomed by his extended relatives.
Alzarkowy replied, by stating that they will have to answer to God for their condemnation of him and his actions.
This is a religious groups attack on what we call the western world.
Since I don't know of any religious war that saw a winner on either side, this one I am sure will be long and costly and destructive.
Since a religious terrorist can not be negotiated with or threatened into submission, I can see no other course but war and destruction and or bringing todays secular and democratic rules to those countries in which it seems possible.
Metatrons post is a pragmatic approach to dealing with this really evil situation. I agree with him.