by AhHah 51 Replies latest jw friends
Path,
I thought that was very interesting also.
However, the question was limited to the Bible's definition of "last days" with the stated implication of an impending judgment day from God. I wonder if your answer implies that you simply feel that mankind will self-destruct soon versus God's intervention - in which case your answer to the question would actually be NO?
I really don't know how to answer that question. Its quite difficult to answer questions like that which by your answer you reveal how much faith you have lost in something you were once so sure of.
Not being sure of many things doesn't bother me. Not being sure of the nature of God, the Bible as God's infallible word, these things are quite troubling.
Path
Path,
I do understand what you are saying about the lost feeling of security as a result of questioning what once seemed unquestionable.
It would seem to be a matter of perspective, as most everything is. In this case, we perceive a loss if our former expectations may not actually be realized. But, what if we never had had such expectations in the first place? Would we feel better or worse when we contemplate our destiny? How would this affect the way we live our lives?
What if we entertain no certain hope of miraculous intervention, even though we recognize that it is a possibility? Would our lives really be worse by comparison? Or would we take more responsibility for our lives and surrender less power to others? Some atheists would seem very "Christian" to those observing them without asking of their beliefs about God.
Religions of all kinds are successful in no small part because people want to believe that death is not the end of their existence. In exchange for promises of eternal life from those who claim to have communicated with our Creator, people are willing to make any number of sacrifices demanded of them and even stop thinking for themselves. Many are even willing to kill others (especially unbelievers) when their religious authority tells them that it is God's will.
If after death we move on to some other form of existence due to the Creator's will or intervention, is it reasonable to believe that the Creator will hold men accountable to one of the many religious dogmas that fill the earth? If so, how are we to be certain beyond a doubt which of the many contradictory belief systems is actually from God and for which we must sacrifice now to qualify for an afterlife?
I find it more reasonable to believe that any afterlife that the Creator has arranged for mankind is assured, regardless of the formal belief system (if any) practiced. We are quick to add, though, "What about the murderers and rapists and child-abusers, etc.?" We want to be reassured that they will be punished not only now, but also in the afterlife! (But, of course, God LOVES every one of us, right?) Enter your religion of choice -- hellfire, damnation, purgatory, or even better -- eternal NON-EXISTENCE. Why not just let God worry about their afterlife since we have no control over it anyway?
I personally find that freedom from enslavement to a religious organization and from a narrow interpretation of God and his judgment has allowed me to be happier and more tolerant of differences in others. I enjoy all types of people more than before. I am not burdened with a need to categorize and judge people who do not conform to a proscribed belief system. I leave that to God. I enjoy knowing that I can be responsible for my own happiness, whether others agree with me or not. I enjoy viewing each day of life as a reward in itself, and not just doing time, waiting for God to save me from the "unbelievers" and this "wicked world". Is this a way of saying that reduced expectations can bring greater satisfaction? Perhaps it is. But I don't necessarliy view that as settling for less. Didn't Christ make some similar points in his Sermon on the Mount?
But, like Dennis Miller says after one of his rants, "That's just my opinion. You may disagree." And that's okay to disagree. Not to share, however, is a shame.
I agree with you AhHah. On the other hand, its not unrealized expectations that are so disturbing for me. I am probably sure of one thing, that i will die, and I have no problem accepting that. (well, not overly thrilled with the growing old and getting sick part, but what can u do? )
I guess I am disturbed at the lack of any foundation these days for any sort of belief. At the end of the day i'm left with just strong ideals, and maybe that's all there really is.
Path
I guess I am disturbed at the lack of any foundation these days for any sort of belief. At the end of the day i'm left with just strong ideals, and maybe that's all there really is. --Path
That is the disturbing part, isn't it?
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
I guess I am disturbed at the lack of any foundation these days for any sort of belief. At the end of the day i'm left with just strong ideals, and maybe that's all there really is.
Perhaps you are just in the process of rebuilding on a different (and stronger?) foundation. This new foundation may allow the earth to move under it without shaking the building down. Less rigid but therefore much stronger and more fuctional. When the building moves from time to time it is a little scary at first. But, then one realizes that one is actually surviving very well, adjusting to ever changing circumstances without crumbling.
Change is sometimes difficult because it is unfamiliar. After a time, we can learn to trust it, if it feels right. Sometimes we just need to glance back and see how far we have actually come, to appreciate where we are.
Funny thing as a Witness, progress and learning seem to come to a standstill after one or 2 years. You learn basics, then get caught on a treadmill of the same old same old, except for "flashes of new light".
As far as spirituality goes, i've probably learned more in the last year, than in the 7500+ meetings i've been to.
Path
For you to have grown so much in such a short time shows that you have more of a foundation than you probably realize. It just feels different. Now it is realistically based on what you do not know (and is perhaps unknowable) as well as what you do know. I'd take your foundation any day of the week.
Hey AhHah,
I know that you've posted that you were a jw, - what is your background? If you don't mind sharing a little?
curious waiting
Waiting,
I don't mind sharing but I am not sure what you would find relevant or interesting.
I was a firstborn, third generation JW, devout, serious-minded, married young. I was discouraged from going to college in spite of high academic honors. After a few years of marriage and struggling with unsatisfying work and facing the double-digit annual inflation of the 70's, I decided to go to a local college. After college I began to do very well with my new career. Still devout, almost an elder, serving as a TM school conductor, book study conductor, public talks, etc. Later relocated for more career growth. Wife freaks out, says she wants a divorce, leaves, I meet my soul mate (puppylove), I get divorced and remarried, we get DF'd and reinstated. We get on internet, read R. Franz's books (actually I study them), we both realize that we cannot be JW's no matter what the cost. I lose a relationship with most of my family, including my daughter.
I am happier in spite of the cost. I have finally begun to develop as a whole person. I believe that it took me so long to recognize the JW's for what they are because of my loyal nature and my deeply-ingrained belief that I was doing what God requires of his dedicated servants. As I look back now, I realize that I had always suffered under that dark, oppressive, stifling cult.
My continued pain is watching those I love continue to be enslaved to that organization.
Edited by - AhHah on 7 October 2000 1:26:2
