A Great Discussion With My Wife

by breakfast of champions 34 Replies latest members private

  • breakfast of champions
    breakfast of champions

    Had a discussion with my wife over the weekend that I was always afraid to have, but it turned out better than I would have imagined. . .

    Up to this point, I never out-and-out told my wife that I think the religion we were raised in is complete bullshit. She already knew my faith in god was shaken to the point of non-belief, and this was something she could deal with. But as we all know, start attacking the organization, and the cult defenses immediately come up.

    The conversation began with me being not very smart or tactful: while driving into town, I started ragging on the Tuesday night meeting part about "prayers that were answered" from the yearbook. I said, although the story of the six-year-old Rwandan girl saving her family by praying out loud was inspirational, the idea that her prayers were answered by god was nonsense. I said I imagine the killers must have been either moved or frightened by the prayer and decided to leave the family alone. God had nothing to do with it. And think of all the witnesses in nazi Germany who lost their lives. Were they not praying for their lives? Or did god decide to answer their prayers in an "unexpected" way - their murder.

    As you can imagine, this upset my wife.

    Do you want to take my hope away? she asked. You think I'm stupid for believing, she said.

    No, there are many very religious people out there who are very smart.

    I apologized and said my remarks were insensitive, but I just don't see the world that way anymore and those types of experiences are just pure superstition to me.

    When we got home, we sat down and I basically laid it pretty much all out there. I started with what she knew: I went through some pretty rough mental health issues and came out with my faith in god in tatters, but I kept doing what I was supposed to do - meetings, field service - and somewhere down the line I would hopefully snap back into shape. But then the summer of 2010 came along with the overlapping generation bullshit - it raised red flags. What was going on? There were too many questions, and I decided to do research.

    I told her that what I enjoy about college and the academic atmosphere is that if you don't believe something you are told and want to challenge it, THEY WELCOME YOU TO DO SO! Go to the library. Do research. Prove it wrong. But with our religion, HOW DARE YOU QUESTION! You must be arrogant and unappreciative. She really couldn't disagree; the Truth should stand up under scrutiny.

    I told her how I researched a lot of things, not based upon apostate materials, but simply by the publications themselves, the Internet (google books) and the library, and the results made me quite angry. I was angry because all my life I had been lied to. All my life decisions were made based upon someone else's lies. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society were LYING TO ME.

    DON'T LIE TO ME BECAUSE I WILL FIND OUT.

    My wife was visibly shaken. I said I love you because you are a good and honest person, and being honest, both to yourself and others, is one of the most important things we can do. I said I love and respect you and trust you, but I do not trust or respect this religion, they are liars and continue to lie to cover their tracks. At times I feel as though I have betrayed you and my religion, but I simply cannot condone something that is patently false.

    I said What's going to happen when 2014 rolls around and whole world commemorates the 100th anniversary of WWI? When the media lays out the timeline of events and they don't match the Watchtower's narrative? Does Jesus really need a hundred years to get his act together? Don't you think people will start asking questions?

    Speaking of Jesus 'invisible presence' in 1914, did you know Russell believed Jesus came in 1874 and there would be a 40 year harvest period ending in 1914 when the end would come? Sure, we look back and say, well, he was imperfect, he didn't know. . . But what do you think people will say about us 100 years from now?

    She had no idea that is what Russell believed, that maybe she had studied that somewhere, but it didn't really jump out at her - but she got the point.

    I told her Here's my deal: I cannot fake this crap forever. The only reason I have ANYTHING to do with this religion is because I don't want to lose you. That's why I do just enough to stay off the radar, and for now, that's fine; but I can't do this forever. If some nosy elder starts butting in and asking questions, it's over, I'll be out the door for apostasy. All they have to ask is Do you believe this is gods organization and it is OVER. I AM NOT GOING TO LIE.

    At that my wife said to me You are not a betrayer. You are a good and honest person. You love me, you love my family. All I ask is that you don't pressure me; let me come to the conclusion on my own, at my own pace. I just need time. But it will be interesting to see what happens in the next few years.

    I said that is more than fair, I have no problem with that. She said You never know. More cases like that one in California, and the whole thing could tank!

    I said, Tell me the truth, be honest. You read the letter from Watchtower to those elders in the court documents. Could any religion who tells their church leaders to cover up for a child molester be directed by god?

    Her answer: No.

    I just love my wife. She is a real human being. She is honest and loving. I'm so glad I married her. I am a VERY lucky man.

    Ok. . . crying now, but I've got another experience from this weekend you'll love when I get the chance.

    Thanks for all of your help everyone!!!!

  • Heartofaboy
    Heartofaboy

    Oh my 'boc' that is so moving.

    What a wonderful relationship you have with your wife.

    I can't wait to hear your other experience.

    Love Hoab

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    Just WOW, BOC!

    You are a very blessed person, indeed (but not in the "God-blessed" way: I don't believe he exists).

    Your strategy was great, focusing on why YOUR inner moral sense cannot be sacrificed on the altar built by JWs to the False God of the GB. She knows you better than anyone, and I dare say that your upright inner moral sense is part of what she appreciates so highly in you.

    Of course, a wife is concerned with whether this means you're doubting EVERYTHING else, too, including your commitment to her, to family, etc. That's rightly perceived by spouses as a potential threat to family unity, so you did the right thing in reassuring that the only reason you've done it ALL THIS TIME was for HER benefit: you don't believe it. You went along with it because you love her, and it was important to her.

    She's probably been in denial mode, but you're stepped up the heat, compelling her to think about the implications, consequences, etc. It's good to give her time: after all, you've had YEARS to stew about this, but she hasn't. Respect the natural progression: it cannot and should not be forced. BUT you've raised the issue of whether SHE can go along with an organization that is corrupt: you're forced her to consider HER moral culpability in going along to get along. Most people understand that is morally-questionable (the old, "I was just following orders" defense).

    In the end, though, remember that ultimately you can only save yourself: you wouldn't be the first person who ultimately lost their marriage/spouse, who was locked into the spinning vortex of JWs. You might even tell her that, as you could explain this as a journey that is not without hazards; but if you navigate through as a team, it will only strengthen the marriage....

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Well done BOC ! you handled that well, you let your wife know you love her,(never stop telling her!), that you respect her, and that you are honest with her, many wives complain that their husbands never "open up" about their real feelings, your dear wife has no complaints there.

    I found a similar approach worked with my wife, she too insists on going at her own pace, she is not as sure as me about things, but because I was open with her she respected my decision to never go to Meetings again, and she joined me in that decision, she has not attended since either, nor will.

    She is much happier now, with the exception of missing the "friends" and the gossip, mind you a lot of that filtres through to us in the end anyway.

    Good luck my friend, your love is what will persuade your wife, she will value that more highly than a man made religion.

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Very encouraging.

  • Mickey mouse
    Mickey mouse

    That's awesome.

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    Awesome.....she said it...now let her come to her own conclussions.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Encourage her not to tell a soul.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Thanks for sharing that happifying experience!

    {clap, clap, clap}

  • Reopened Mind
    Reopened Mind

    BOC,

    From a wife's perspective, she is very lucky to have you!! You have given her something she will never get from the JW religion---unconditional love. May she come to appreciate the value of that gift.

    Ropened Mind

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