Help! HLC member coming

by PrincessCynic 63 Replies latest members private

• 

  diamondiiz

  they have plainly stated in their latest BOE letter to the rank-and-file NOT to call the WT on policy, but to go to the elders.

  Yes, the letter tells elders not to advise r&f to call Bethal. If r&f goes to elders, elders will follow the book instead of some other policy. I don't see how elders would tell r&f that it's ok to accept blood, or that they won't be viewed as da themselves. As I said in the post above, if elders believed that accepting blood was not da consequence, this would spread rather quickly among others.

  they will start prosecuting for secretly recording a private conversation.

  It would rather be difficult for them to prove who you are since you're on the other end of the line and you don't need to use your real name while they are representing the wts and do use their name as to who they are and their position can be obtain through conversation.

  It's not succumbing to their mind control, but basically stating what their policy book states and reasoning how another hidden policy can be in play where elders don't know of it in the first place.
• 

  MMXIV

  Hi PrincessCynic

  Firstly, congratulations!!!!

  Secondly, well done on reading up on JWFacts / Freeminds and getting your husbands understanding on this too. It can be a very difficult process to get a partner to open their eyes and you've been able to discuss such things with him which is great.

  Thirdly, try and forget all the terrible things you may have heard over the years from the platform about how dangerous blood transfusions are and how the NHS will give them out routinely like sweeties. Like most topics that JW's believe they have become experts on - they're mostly wrong, full of bias or at best have bad advice. The horror stories I heard at my KH bear no resemblence to the process I've observed when donating blood regularly since I stopped being a JW. Do not believe the myths that following some HLC directive will result in better care.

  Fourthly, the WTBS only exerts control over you that you are willing to allow it. Do what you think is best, get the treatment you want and just don't tell them anything.

  Care during your pregnancy and birth is the priority. Clearly it's good to let your midwife know what care you want to receive, but do so in the simplest terms and ensure she writes this down in the simplest terms. I wouldn't discuss it at length with her - she's good at giving simple birthing advice, has some experience but only at observing births (your body does all the work), not dealing with complications and certainly isn't a doctor so may not fully grasp the issue. Also doctors acting in an emergency situation don't have time to interpret what some long directive means so keep it clear.

  Best advice is to have a note which states that strictly no medical procedures should be discussed with anyone other than your husband.

  In terms of the HLC - try and avoid meeting them - say you're unwell due to pregnancy and don't answer the door if they call. Be uber positive to the elders and say how nice it is they're looking out for you and you'll sort the forms but then be scatty or avoid doing it. If someone pushes a form in your face just say you're feeling faint and take the form away. They'll give up soon enough. Also forget to give them details of your doctor or give some excuse that you're meant to be getting a new doctor bla bla bla.

  The chances are you'll have a healthy birth without complications.

  Please don't worry about all this. Enjoy your pregnancy!

  mmxiv
• 

  00DAD

  Look, to put it simply, it's none of the elders business. I know they think it is and I know that most JWs think it is, but it is NOT.

  If they say they want to meet with you simply say, "Thank you, but no."

  Just for clarification, the "Thank you" is merely to be polite, not because their respecting your position is optional.

  Using language they would be familiar with, your position is non-negotiable: Leave me alone.

  BTW, you should probably tell your primary care doctor and anyone else you are working with that if any of the elders on the HLC try to speak to them, they are specifically NOT to be told ANYTHING about your health care. Doctors and other health care providers of course know this, but if they mistakenly believe these are your "friends" they might innocently say some trivial thing that could later cause you grief.

  Insist on your right to privacy.
• 

  Dogpatch

  DiamondDiz says,

  Yes, the letter tells elders not to advise r&f to call Bethal. If r&f goes to elders, elders will follow the book instead of some other policy. I don't see how elders would tell r&f that it's ok to accept blood, or that they won't be viewed as da themselves. As I said in the post above, if elders believed that accepting blood was not da consequence, this would spread rather quickly among others.

  They will never tell the R&F it is okay to have a blood transfusion. Were you ever an elder, or worked at Bethel? No offense, but that is laughable. Everything is only told to who needs to know, no one else. Again, read the April 9th BOE letter. And apparently you didn't read my "unholy trinity" article. No need to repeat myself. If you're in doubt, just wait and see. If actual evidence comes up that completely counters what I am saying, that's another thing. I don't mind being corrected, so y'all can hit me with both barrels. If your response is to quote Watchtower books, even to the elders, that's horsecrap.

  they will start prosecuting for secretly recording a private conversation.

  It would rather be difficult for them to prove who you are since you're on the other end of the line and you don't need to use your real name while they are representing the wts and do use their name as to who they are and their position can be obtain through conversation.

  Read the above, you are just not getting the point, perhaps because you aren't reading it all. They will not answer you unless they can positively identify you, and if they do they will not disclose their inner unwritten policies unless they feel it is important enough or damaging enough... This is exactly the same way they work on pedophile issues which have been discussed for several years now. Are you new here? Barbara Anderson can testify to their differing levels of policy - just ask her to comment! She was a Bethel elder. :-))

  ANY Bethelite who has worked in any Bethel elder position, preferably a Presiding overseer, can verify this is how they work if they have experience in dealing with the headquarters and judicial issues.

  Apparently you didn't read my last post about their provable policy not to answer anon calls or phony calls without being able to identify you with certainly, and they can trace analog calls, like they did mine. Use a cell phone. I don't have one.

  It's not succumbing to their mind control, but basically stating what their policy book states and reasoning how another hidden policy can be in play where elders don't know of it in the first place.

  You are succumbing to their mind control if you believe the Shepherding book is telling their inner policies. Sorry and nothing personal, my friend.

  Randy
• 

  iCeltic

  You are under absolutely no obligation to fill out any forms of any sort. Just say thanks for your concern but you are quite happy to handle it yourself, you do not need to even speak with them.

  I sent you a pm on this subject.
• 

  iCeltic

  Princess Cynic said - There was actually an elderly brother in my cong who was DF/DAd for accepting blood last year. Faithful his whole life then kicked out just before he died.

  Thats interesting that you actually know someone who was put out the congregation only last year for taking blood. It's proves that the policy to DF is still in place. Very sad.
• 

  2tone

  Im a healthcare professional. I havent the time to read the entire thread because someone might have discussed this already.

  I would let the doctor and hospital know ahead of time that you dont want any religious members near you during labor and delivery and postpartum. Or just have a specific list of people who are allowed to see you at the hospital. Make sure the nurses and doctors know that you want you information kept strictly confidential as there are people that may seek information. They should already know to keep you information confidentail according to HIPAA laws.
• 

  Morbidzbaby

  Congratulations!

  You are under no obligation to meet with anyone. Period. The HLC has no right to ask you to meet with them. YOU are in charge of your own health care.

  You mentioned you're seeing midwives right now, and then will have a different one at the hospital...make sure they have it on file that you WILL accept a transfusion if necessary. Although you're unsure of what you believe, if they ask, DO NOT say you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

  The Governing Body likes to make it seem like doctors use transfusions as an answer for everything. In fact, they don't. The supply of donor blood isn't humongous, so they are careful with when they use it...in emergencies, or when medically necessary. I've had c-sections, and with one of them I bled profusely (I stupidly didn't take my iron pills) and I still didn't need a transfusion. The WT likes to use scare tactics, claiming that doctors and nurses will FORCE blood on you, even if you refuse...even likening it to rape (which is a disgusting comparison and an insult to rape victims). Your medical decisions are YOUR business. Period. Your medical records are confidential and if they were to try to go about finding out information on whether or not you accepted blood, they could be in BIG trouble. Here in the US, as a healthcare worker, I could have gotten a $20,000 fine just for telling my mother that Mrs. Smith has a huge bedsore on her ass. So confidentiality and the breech of it is nothing to sniff at.

  Make sure when you deliver that NO ONE alerts the JW's. I don't know if you'd want your mother to be with you when you deliver, but I'd reconsider it if you can't trust her not to call every JW friend she has and alert them.

  I consider myself lucky in that this time, I don't have to consult anyone or have any JW's breathing down my neck during my pregnancy. My mother lives across the country and hardly speaks to me anymore...But when she does, she always makes sure to bring up "The Blood Issue" and tries to remind me to alert the anesthesiologist (which I've told her SEVERAL FRIGGIN TIMES that I'm having a natural vaginal birth, so NO ANESTHESIOLOGIST will be present) as well as the OB. I just "mmm-hmm" and "I know" and "yup" through her little speeches...all the while knowing that my OB's file says "Religion: NONE; Will You Accept a Blood Transfusion in the Event of an Emergency?: YES". My OB has no idea that I've ever been involved with the JW's at all. If you haven't told your midwife your religious status, perhaps you should do the same.

  It's good that your husband SAYS he will allow a transfusion of you or the baby... But when push comes to shove, he might crack under his own cognitive dissonance and refuse. You need to have YOUR wishes in writing and on file with the hospital, that way no matter how hard he might fight to refuse a transfusion, YOU have already given the okay and have already made your health care wishes known. Contrary to JW belief, you are not under his "headship" and have the right to make decisions FOR YOURSELF without his interference.

  Best of luck to you... You've gotten a lot of great feedback and information on people to contact. I wish you well and a healthy and happy pregnancy!
• 

  skeeter1

  "It's good that your husband SAYS he will allow a transfusion of you or the baby... But when push comes to shove, he might crack under his own cognitive dissonance and refuse."

  Ditto. Saddle your own horse. Don't rely on your husband to do it.
• 

  diamondiiz

  Randy:

  You're entitled to your opinion. I don't argue that higher ups need to follow same rules as r&f but to claim that elders at your local kh won't view those who accept blood as DA is another matter. Everything is only told to who needs to know, no one else. This is exactly the point, elders won't know of "new" policy if no one tells them, and why would elders inquire regarding a policy that's already spelled out for them in their book. Why would they assume there might be something more to the policy spelled out for them?

  I guess we'll wait and see how this policy evolves down the road.