An Interview with JGNAT by Lady Lee
A long while back, Valis, an old poster here, approached me about trying an interview format to exams some of the questions people might have about getting therapy due to the long-term issues related to being a JW. An Interview With Lady Lee (by Valis)
I thought it might be interesting to do another interview; this time examining the issue of those who date or are in relationships with JWs. Over the time she has been here, JGNAT has been a great source of information and support to this group of people.
Feel free to ask any questions here. And if you prefer to remain anonymous but still want to ask a question, PM me and I will add it in with the next portion of the interview.
Lee:
You've been here a while. I would like to know what brought you to JWD? And more importantly why have you stayed?JGNAT:
I've never been a Jehovah's Witness. Rather, I married one instead. As a non-Witness, I needed information, and I needed a voice. As you know, the Witness materials are very one-sided. "Outsiders" and dissenters have no-where to speak in JW-land. I had a lot on my mind, and I needed to express myself in a safe environment. JWD provided, and continues to provide, that very necessary outlet.I would say that my initial needs were met within the first few months. At that time I had my first discussion board watershed. To continue over the old subjects was becoming tedious. This is where discussion boards and the internet are different than, say, movies or television. They are interactive medium, and are at their best when they are actively used rather than passively watched. So I had to ask myself, shall I leave or stay? I decided I could turn my experience around to help others. This is where I get my greatest pleasure from the board these days, welcoming the newcomers, and befriending and supporting other UBM's.
Lee:
Why do you think you relate to the ex-JW experience so well?JGNAT: There were some abusive and manipulative people in my past; specifically my mother and my ex-husband, who helped me develop a hypersensitivity to manipulation and abuse. Though I could not express it in those terms right away, I spotted some of those same techniques in the Watchtower materials. There are shades of control in my former evangelical church, thought I would not consider it abusive. That background, however, gave me an understanding how a group of people could come to consider themselves exclusive and "special" (something my mother did to isolate us as well). It also gave me a background on a "bible based" religion, and how scriptures may be misused to control people.
The ex-JW courage required to separate from our abusers, overcome our past, and rebuild a life, I think, is also very similar to what abuse survivors go through.
Lee:
I've noticed a few times you mention UBM. What does this stand for?JGNAT:
Check_Your_Premises (CYP), the energetic half of a mixed marriage, came up with this term standing for "Un-Believing Mates". It stuck. CYP is not as active on JWD, but he continues to work on his marriage.Outsiders would have a hard time understanding this, but even a regular Christian like me, who attends church every Sunday, has read the bible through and through, knows how to use a concordance and has a deep and abiding faith, is considered "unbelieving" by the Jehovah's Witnesses. I regularly get annoyed at their assumptions regarding my spiritual status, and if they dare use that expression in my hearing, I correct them.
Lee:
What is your "outsider's" view of the congregation?JGNAT:
As funny as it might sounds, I would really like to break down the prejudices and barriers that keep evangelical Christians from interacting with the Witnesses. It's almost as if they have dug their relative heels in to the doctrinal sands, and they have come to a standstill. Both consider the other to be apostate and therefore dangerous. In my unique position, I've heard both camps relate to me stories of angels and demons variously warning and protecting them from the "dangers" of the other. It's not about the trinity, guys! And it's not about avoiding those ultimate corrupters (1 Corinthians 5:11). Evangelicals and Witnesses alike are regular people with a bit of an ego problem. I don't think it is possible to be sucked in to the Witness doctrines unawares, especially if you break out of their rehearsed sales pattern and ask sensible questions.I've sat through many Witness services and conventions, and no angels or demons materialized. It's all rather boring. The decor is typically bland, and the layout businesslike. You will likely be greeted at the door, but if you are dressed conservatively, they will mostly leave you alone until the end of the service. At that time a well-meaning pioneer or elder will likely make a sales pitch. Unique with the Witnesses are the magazine study at the end of the public talk on Sundays, and the midweek service meeting. Both remind me more of a business meeting than a church service. The rehearsal of door-to-door interactions are an interesting study of sales techniques.
The music is more a marker to indicate transition from one phase of service to the other, rather than an act of worship. No plate is passed and there will be no plea for contributiosn. Rather, there are contribution boxes by the exits. The congregations are typically smaller than the church services I am used to attending, and the proportion of elders much higher. The elders take care of what we would typically consider pastoral duties.
Another unusual feature of the meetings, even the midweek bible study, is that at no time is an individual's opinion sought or desired. There is tremendous peer pressure to conform and speak only to the provided outline. Individuality is patiently but relentlessly stamped out. I've seen several new studies, especially the men, arrive in rather tattered attire. In the weeks to come, he gradually started wearing first a suit jacket over his slogan t-shirt, then a dress shirt, and finally a tie. The study leader is not overt in his displeasure, but as the study gradually conforms, he is lavished with abundant praise. Even my JW husband has commented how much closer this man has come to the "truth".
Lee:
What are the biggest pluses and minuses, being married to a Witness?JGNAT
: I think we underestimate, on this board, the attraction of Witnesses to regular people. They are fairly clean-cut, polite, and don't swear much. Their deep hangups, I think, are discovered later.Pluses:
Minuses:
JGNAT:
I can expand on each of these issues as we go, if you like.
You will notice that these issues are common problems that regular couples have to face. The JW experience compounds the troubles a couple have, but they are not unique. My Great-Uncle Jim Baillie, for instance, married "that Greek Woman", a Catholic, in our purely Protestant family. The family never truly accepted her. But, it appears, she gave Uncle Jim great happiness. http://www.bsc-eoc.org/organization/jlbmf.html
For someone in love with a Witness, the most important question is whether to go or stay. The board tends to respond with a resounding, "Run!", but I've rarely seen that work with the love-sick. I mean, in other realms, we have women corresponding with murderers in jail and falling in love. Never underestimate the folly of love. Add on top of this the crazyness of the Witness experience, and you have one potent love-match. I prefer to ask questions, point out the pitfalls that must be overcome, and have the person come to their own conclusion.
Lee: Is the ex-JW experience unique?
JGNAT: I think I've hinted a few times that the ex-JW experience, though powerful, is not unique. There are various groups that could relate to what an exiting Witness goes through. Since the society, I think, deliberately isolates it's congregation members to better mainain control, it's important to let an exiting Witness know that there are people who can relate to their experience. Perhaps not in the details or the selective language, but definitely in the areas of rejection, manipulation, and abuse.
Some groups we could relate to:
The gay community and their various "coming out" experiences. Just like an exiting Witness, in order to honor their individuality, the gay person has to buck the crowd. Similarly, they risk losing connection with their loved-ones, if they "come out". This kind of rejection is a vicious attack on self-esteem. Both exiting Witnesses and gays are risks for suicide.
Surivors of domestic abuse, like me. My husband spent a great deal of time beating down my individuality. He scorned my ability to make it on my own. I very nearly believed him. It took many, many years to restore my self-worth and trust my own decisions.
Scams, pyramid schemes, and multi-level marketing empires use some of the same recruiting and manipulation techniques that theWitnesses use.
And, there are cult survivors from groups who are much worse than the Witnesses. I think exited JW's would have a lot in common with former members of the World Wide Church of God (WWCG), for instance. I do give WWCG high points, however, for going mainstream after their leader's death. It cost them the organization, but helped many, many people leave and recover. Former members are as bitter about their experience as the Witnesses, however.
Thanks for agreeing to do this JG. I know I have already learned some important info.
We will work on the second part of the interview while others have a chance to ask their own questions.