Ran into old JW friend in the airport...Correspondence has ensued...

by Confession 51 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Confession
    Confession

    It was the same weekend that my Mom and Dad, to my surprise, agreed to meet with me. I was in Midland, Michigan, about a month ago, only an hour or so from where they live. In the airport on Monday morning, in walked John, someone I remembered well from the JW congregation of my youth. He's about seven years older than I. (I think that makes him around 49 now.) I think he was in our congregation when I was age 12 through 16, and he was around 19 to 23 or so.

    I recognized him immediately, and he came over, said "hi" and sat down. He told me he hadn't been to a Kingdom Hall in about eight years. Cool! I figured we could have a comfortable conversation then. It so happens we were on the same flight from Saginaw to Minneapolis--and we'd both been upgraded to First Class. So we sat together, had a couple of drinks, and I told him how life had been, especially the part about coming out of the organization mentally. He mentioned a few frustrating experiences as a JW, but otherwise didn't say anything very negative about the organization itself. He also spoke of his appreciation for certain Native American teachings.

    Well, a couple of weeks ago, he called to catch up, and we had another conversation. In it he actually said he still believed it was The Truth! I kept cool, but was totally shocked inside. I tried to determine, did he mean it was the truth in some way--other than the way the WTS teaches it as The Truth? His answers to my questions, I felt, were deflections. He'd say that it was the truth to them. Oh, okay, cool. So he didn't mean that he himself considered it actually Theee one and only Truth from humankind's Creator? Well he wouldn't answer that one directly. He began to argue that it's their religion and they should be able to worship as they see fit, and he didn't really see any of the things they did as bad, but if they were, that was their right--and I'd just have to learn to deal with it. Toward the end of our conversation, he somewhat smugly told me he felt there was "a lot of deep-seated anger" inside of me over this. LOL!

    So I decide to send him a brief e-mail later, telling him I hoped I hadn't offended or irritated him. He then sent me the following e-mail...

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hi Jon,

    I enjoyed the conversation as well! It helped clarify things left 'hanging' from our first conversation. Thank you.

    I didn't take anything you mentioned as personally insulting or irritating, so no worries there. I can think of several past conversations where the person was completely closed minded and totally unreasonable. It was a refreshing to be able to share my thoughts with someone who listened and acknowledged them. I appreciated it. Your information is vast, and your knowledge respected.

    A small side point here, but it comes back to my thought; The Bismarck work went well, and I enjoyed the locale. Coming home, Northwest had some 'mechanical' problems on the plane I was waiting for, but fortunately the lay-over I had was long enough that I still connected into Saginaw on my scheduled flight. It was about 1:00 am when I made it [home] with the realization that the fridge was bare and I needed to pick up some food and non-food items at Wal-Mart. At this late hour (after the flights, after the complimentary first class upgrade beverages, after the drive) I started my shopping. When I came to the paper towels I knew I needed to get some.

    Now it's been my on-going mainstay to pick up the Bounty Mega-roll select-a-size six pack. That's what I always bought - period. That's what I always choose. It was an eye-opener when I didn't see what I wanted to see. NOW, I could still get the 6 mega-rolls (without the select-a-size) - OR - I could get a 2 pack of regular sized paper towels that were select-a-size. Here, at 1:15am, I realized that I could not have it both ways, and was irked that I couldn't any more! Funny how the brain connects and relates similar thought patterns here, because I thought of you and our conversation, and wished you could see the comparison between your 'life' choices that you have, and the paper towel choice I had.

    Sometimes, no matter how much you want something, you just can't have it 'both' ways. In our phone conversation, it was plain that you miss your friends, and you also want to question decisions people have made regards the direction the organization is going.

    When I was little (about 7 or 8) my Mom bought a calendar that had a saying on it. It goes like this: "God, grant me the strength to change the things I can, accept the things I can't, and the wisdom to know the difference."

    Forty years later, I like it this rendition of the thought better. An esteemed, respected, knowledgeable man made this comment: “Men of Israel, pay attention to yourselves as to what YOU intend to do respecting these men. For instance, before these days Theu´das rose, saying he himself was somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined his party. But he was done away with, and all those who were obeying him were dispersed and came to nothing. After him Judas the Gal•i•le´an rose in the days of the registration, and he drew off people after him. And yet that man perished, and all those who were obeying him were scattered abroad. And so, under the present circumstances, I say to YOU, Do not meddle with these men, but let them alone; (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; 39 but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them;) otherwise, YOU may perhaps be found fighters actually against God.”

    Unfortunately, even today still, people like to flog, torture, attack, and belittle others. In this country, it's reserved to mainly the verbal attacks, thankfully. When I asked you if had "anything better" - you didn't. Yet, like the Pharisees, you were able to point out the wrongs of others.

    My advice is to focus on finding the 'something better' rather than counter-productively wasting your time pointing out faults - verbally flogging others.

    (Galatians 6:9-10) . . .So let us not give up in doing what is fine, for in due season we shall reap if we do not tire out. 10 Really, then, as long as we have time favorable for it, let us work what is good toward all, but especially toward those related to [us] in the faith.

    (Philippians 4:8-9) . . .Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern, whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable, whatever things are well spoken of, whatever virtue there is and whatever praiseworthy thing there is, continue considering these things. 9 The things that YOU learned as well as accepted and heard and saw in connection with me, practice these; and the God of peace will be with you.

    Note that the above statements are not directed at any organization, but are directed towards us individually.

    Jon, my friend, if you have something / anything positive, encouraging, up-building to share, I'd love to hear it!!!

    Peace and well wishes!! :)

    John

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan
    So he didn't mean that he himself considered it actually Theee one and only Truth from humankind's Creator? Well he wouldn't answer that one directly. He began to argue that it's their religion and they should be able to worship as they see fit, and he didn't really see any of the things they did as bad, but if they were, that was their right--and I'd just have to learn to deal with it.

    From his perspective your more definite attitude about the entire JW thing was off putting. Many who leave the organization but never fully understand why it was so wrong act that way. They can even get somewhat defensive of the org and see those that challenge it as the bad guys.

    I think what I would focus on is the fact that they have the open right to believe anything they want, but they should not be hurting people along the way. Telling people to sacrifice their families to policies such as disfellowshipping is uncalled for.

    I understand your frustration with this person, sometimes you can't understand why they are willing to toss the whole affair into the grey zone. There may be a lot that this person still holds on to that came from the organization, and by openly describing such things as wrong he may take offense just as any ordinary JW would.

  • Hope4Others
    Hope4Others

    He seems relatively comfortable where he is at in life. It does not seem to indicate by what he says that

    he's at the place to be taught or accept criticism of "Truths" as we know them now. One can only hope his

    mind will be open one day to further discussion. You just never know.

    Cheers!

    hope4others

  • AudeSapere
    AudeSapere
    Jon, my friend, if you have something / anything positive, encouraging, up-building to share, I'd love to hear it!!!

    Wow. Is he implying that you and your words were anything less than positive, encouraging or up-building?? I've spoken with you on numerous occaisions and never found you to be even remotely negative or discouraging.

    People can be weird in their thoughts and methods sometimes.

    Or maybe you are just a two-faced loser who verbally assaults his life-long friends and family to their faces. (j/k - of course!)

    -Denise.

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    This is interesting.

    I've met many an ex-JW who is similar to your friend. Still has all the respect and high regard for the WTS as ever, even quoting you scriptures, yet hasn't been involved for years himself.

    They see us as obsessed, negative and angry, we see them as pathetically still clueless about what the WTS really is. I found myself thinking, "Hey, this guy sounds like he's intelligent. What in hell is wrong with his critical thinking skills??"

    I'm not sure what the best thing to say is. Drew Sagan had some good advice. I'm not sure what common ground can be found. He was really patronizing toward you. He still sounded very much like a counsel-giving JW, with the know-it-all, I know what's best for everyone approach of a typical Witness.

    I can think of a lot of things I'd like to say to him, but I'm afraid I just keep sounding like I'd be getting myself into a go-nowhere pissing match, which I'm quite capable of doing!

    S4

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    His mind is still closed.

    When I found out about 607 B.C., the UN, Bulgaria and blood, and a few other items I realised that the JW's/WTBTS/FDS are pawns of satan.

  • Confession
    Confession

    I'm working on my response to his e-mail. I'll post it when finished.

  • jamiebowers
    jamiebowers

    I didn't realize that escaping from a corporate mind controlling cult wasn't "positive, encouraging, up-building". He sounds just as smug and self-righteous as a card carrying jw.

  • done4good
    done4good

    Unfortunately, there are more ex-jws like your friend, than not...

    I had several friends that left the Borg, (some long before me), that to this day, either avoid me now, or are less than friendly. Many people are stuck in the "grey area", and I believe this is for several resons:

    1. They are still affected by long term mind control of the cult. (They heard for many years that anyone attacking the org, is attacking the "brothers").

    2. It is easier to do than take the brave step of examining one's belief system. (Far easier to just believe, but not participate).

    3. They want to keep peace with those they still have a relationship with in the org.

    4. They want to keep the "door open", just in case they decide to go back.

    5. They largely still think like jws. They may disagree in some key areas , but still believe the "big" stuff.

    j

  • SirNose586
    SirNose586

    Oh, that "you don't have anything better" line sticks in my craw. Number one, there are plenty of better afterlifes than the JW one. Instant pass into heaven? Nope, you don't get that. A planet of your own, in which you are god? Nope, not in the JW plan. Unity with everything in the universe? Nope. In fact, the JW afterlife sucks. You have to be a janitor for 1000 years, conduct Bible studies with everyone and STILL ATTEND MEETINGS, and even then you're not in the clear! You still have to pass another test, and this is all contingent upon Jehober letting you survive to pick up trash in the first place!

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