The "study" went GREAT, my mom NOW has questions!!!!

by FreedomFrog 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • FreedomFrog
    FreedomFrog

    Ok, as some of you know, I was suppose to have a "study" with my mom and an Elders wife yesterday. Well, the Elders wife couldn't make it because "something came up". I guess it was more important than my salvation.

    Anyway, I still went to my parents house. And mom being in the desperate mode feeling she needs to "save" me, decided that we would still have the "study" with her and my pioneer sister. So we got into the discussion. To start, I asked her if we could stay on 2 points so we can take all of my questions one at a time and not go all over the place. She agreed and thought that was best. Anyway, as we're discussing it, and I made my point. She said that now SHE has to have them answered. And she's going to try to find out about it. One thing that I brought out was the account where David killed 700 men in chariots...and several chapters down was basically same account (same situation, city and such) that said he killed 7,000 men in chariots. I could see that my mom was intrigued. So my sister said she thought that it was because it was written by 2 different men with two different perspectives. I said I understand that, but which is it? 700 or 7,000. Sister said it didn't mattered. My mom jumps in and says, "I know where you're going with this, so let me try to answer". She explained because they were imperfect men trying to do their best. BINGO!!!! That's EXACTLY what I wanted her to say. Because I was able to ask her, then what proof says that other things aren't messed up. How do we know that what we read is by god if imperfect men made mistakes in the bible. Both my sister, mom... and even dad who can argue anything sat there quietly for quite a while. Then mom chimed in and said, NOW I need that answered. This wasn’t the whole discussion because it was an hour long. But I’m trying to put the “main” parts in this post so that it won’t become a 3 page deal. I’ve got MANY that will need explaining. I also showed them how to come up with information (I had a printout also) on where the Society owns part of the warfare stocks. (Thanks to Junction guy) This had an impact on my parents. So, now, I need to get more damning evidence ready for later after they have chewed this up for a while. The next one will probably be Mexico and Malawi incident. At least they now have questions on their own. I don’t think things will change… or not for a while. And I think I’ll still get disfellowshipped before they (IF/when) they see the “wrongs” of that religion. But at least my parents will have those questions in their minds.

    Is the Mexico and Malawi a good next step? Or what should I take next time? Thank you all for your help with my parents. I do feel real good about this.

    My mom did admit that yes, she could be wrong about the religion. That’s a step I never thought I’d hear. My dad and sister still won’t admit to that.

    FF

  • damselfly
    damselfly
    My mom did admit that yes, she could be wrong about the religion. That’s a step I never thought I’d hear. My dad and sister still won’t admit to that.

    Wow! That's good that she is willing to question it. Hope it all goes well for next time.

    Dams

  • luna2
    luna2

    Wow, excellent start! There's so many things to bring up, might as well go Malawi/Mexico next. That whole thing raises questions that are very hard to answer or find excuses for.

  • Mulan
    Mulan

    This is great. My husband did basically the same things to me, to get me to think about some things. Once it's in your head, you can't push it back out, no matter how hard you try.

    The Mexico and Malawi situation was really powerful with me. There is no way I could excuse that one.

    Keep it coming and let us know how things progress.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    It is hard to say what is the best tack, as everyone has a different thing that opens their eyes. Mexico is a good point, but easily dismissed as apostate as there is little proof apart from Franz.

    Attacking the bible is also dangerous, as you are undermining two things at once, the bible and the WTS. With the bible though, the Flood is a great one, as it is impossible for it to have been the JW view of global.

    I feel it is best to start with the WTS. Look at what proof is there that God picked it, and no other. Try this article. http://jwfacts.com/index_files/5min.htm Chances are your sister is not even aware of the pyramids etc.

    607 is good, but you really need to study up on it.

    The way the NWT adds the word Jehovah to the NT is also a critical deception on their part.

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    Good news about your mom. My advice though is to stay on biblical topics at first. Because if you mention the Malawi thing too early, then she will know what your intentions are and she will say that you only asked about the 700 vrs. 7000 to tear down her confidence in the bible. You need to still make it look like you truly want answers to bible questions Here are some things you can ask about, maybe others can help too.

    Ask her why the 144,000 is a literal number but in the SAME paragraph, the description that they are all Jews is only symbolic? Bring out that it should be both literal or both symbolic.

    Ask her how you know the faithful slave has been appointed based on Matthew 24:45, when Jesus was just asking "who is the faithful servant?"

    Ask her if she can tell you how she knows for sure that the faithful slave are all anointed? See if she can point to biblical proof or do you just have to take the word of people you don't know?

    Ask what scriptures the society uses to enforce the rules about handing in field service reports to the elders, attending five meetings a week, having a mandatory ministry school, etc.

    Also, ask what scriptual backing is there for the term "governing body", when Jesus said we all all "brothers".

    I know you want to prove the bible has holes in it. But I think this is the best way to start off. Although I believe in God and the Bible, I can agree that not every word or comma was hand written by God. And there are things in it that are men's ideas and beliefs. You have to take into consideration to who the books where written for (the audience) and why. And take it all in context. These are things the cults do not do. Anyway, good luck. Lilly

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    Excellent Gina!!!

    I think that Mexico/Malawi could be a great topic to bring up with them. Just tread lightly with it.

  • Mulan
    Mulan
    The way the NWT adds the word Jehovah to the NT is also a critical deception on their part.

    This is an excellent point. When we were called in for our one and only fact finding meeting, in 1997, the elders asked us if it was true that we had told someone that the WTS added Jehovah to the Greek scriptures in the NWT. I said, "yes, of course we did............I can't remember when I didn't know that. It's in the Divine Name brochure". So they went and got one and I had to show them that it did indeed say that. I had actually read that brochure. I suspect neither of them had.

    That was fun. We completely controlled that meeting, and they never called another one for us. We were able to fade out, never to return again.

    When my husband was first doing his research on the org., he read both of Ray Franz' books. I was horrified but a bit curious too. He was a prominent elder, and I didn't want to make any trouble for him, so I never told anyone he was doing it. I knew two other elders who had also read the books and they seemed fine (not). Anyway, as time went by, I would ask him about things he was reading, as he would laugh or act disgusted as he read at home. So, he started telling me little things. After awhile, he told me about Mexico and Malawi. I remember the time that Malawi was so terrible for JW's, and reading all the reports, so it was very upsetting. It had the ring of truth to it so I did believe it, but felt there had to be justification somehow. I never could make it work in my head though.

  • Lady Liberty
    Lady Liberty

    Dear Freedom Frog,

    I am so happy for you! Getting any JW to listen, especially family, is a huge accomplishment! You have done a GREAT job!! I think your next idea of Mexico/Malawi issue is great! One VERY important issue that may help you is the 607 issue. I know I have told alot of people to read this, but we were (my husband and I) die hard JWs! And this is what broke us! If our story helps just one person, then it is definately worth repeating! However, like already stated, you need to do your homework on this subject. You will find our story under my membership name. Click on Topics, then go to the topic entitled, "Its High Time I Introduce Myself". If nothing else gets to your Dad, this probably will do it! We look forward to hearing more of your Moms progress! Great job!

    Sincerely,

    Lady Liberty

  • freetosee
    freetosee

    Well done FF,

    it was good the elders wife couldn’t make it, if possible keep her out of it.

    I think it is best to next challenge WT bible interpretations, not the bible itself. You got your mom to start thinking and don’t want the ‘inside-wall’ to jump up. When I first left and my family was in, I found questions demanding scriptural evidence to work best. I also think it is important to tell them how you feel about certain WT teachings. Don’t say you believe and know different or they might consider you apostate influenced.

    There was so much I wanted to tell my family I could hardly control it, but realized being patient and giving a lot of time worked better.

    You know your family best and can access how far to go with them. Make these ‘studies’ as enjoyable and friendly as possible (my heart often started beating very hard during these conversations) and end them with a pleasant thought of common ground which they can agree to.

    I hope all the best for your endeavours.

    freetosee

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