Health Care: A Right or a Privilege?

by prophecor 401 Replies latest members politics

fairchild

Acadian,
I take it you have a job which offers benefits? Are you aware that more than 50% of jobs in my area do not come with benefits? What if everyone would "take care of themselves" like you suggest, could you also suggest a way for them to do such? I guess they could quit their job without benefits and go search for a job which does have benefits, but then, we are mostly talking jobs which require higher education. What if they don't have higher education? Oh, and we would also need to close all restaurants and all small retail stores, because such places never offer benefits, so if all their workers quit to "take care of themselves" then they wouldn't have anyone to work for them.
It all comes down to this.. Person X grew up in a poor family and they couldn't afford to send person X to college. Now person X takes a restaurant job which doesn't pay great to start with, and it also doesn't pay benefits. X really wants to take care of himself, so he works a second job in order to get ahead in life. Lo and behold, person X gets sick and needs to go to the hospital. His savings are used to pay off hospital bills. Oh yes, he tried hard to get some cheap health care, but he had to show proof of income, and honest as he tries to be in life, he shows them all his pay stubs. Damnit wouldn't you know it, he actually makes a few dollars a month too much to be eligible for the health care plan. But now he is sick and all his savings are gone. So much for X trying to take care of himself. FYI, nearly ALL of my co-workers (including myself) are in this situation, making just a few dollars a month too much to be eligible for a health care plqan, yet not making enough to be able to afford real health insurance, and not making enough to afford getting seriously ill.

sammielee24

Some info off the American health care reform site - I found it very interesting...

There are over 46 MILLION Americans with NO health insurance because they can't afford it. There are about 30 MILLION Americans who are underinsured. In the past four years the number of uninsured rose by 6 million people. TV & Radio News
Watch ABC-TV America's Health Insurance Crisis Thurs. Dec. 15, '05 10pm. More Listen KPCC-FM discussion Los Angeles' health care safety net. More

"I have a dream..."
and it's H.R.676, the United States National Health Insurance Act (or the Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act) - Establishes the United States National Health Insurance Program (the Program) to provide all individuals residing in the United States and in U.S. territories with free health care that includes all medically necessary care, such as primary care and prevention, prescription drugs, emergency care, and mental health services. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquer y/z?d109:HR00676:@@@L&summ2=m &

An alternate to H.R. 676 is state-based reform under H.R. 1200. Entitled the American Health Security Act of 2005, this would establish the State-Based American Health Security Program to provide every U.S. resident who is a U.S. citizen, national, or lawful resident alien with health care services. Requires each participating State to establish a State health security program. More on H.R. 1200 here: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109 :HR01200:@@@L&summ2=m&

President G.W. Bush has not taken any meaningful action to eliminate the uninsured problem or to relieve us from skyrocketing costs for healthcare. General Motors and Ford complained for several years about their unsustainable health insurance costs for their employees and retirees. Has President Bush addressed this problem? Not to our knowledge and these two automakers have recently announced they will each lay off 30,000 workers (that's a total of 60,000 layoffs) in the coming years.

While President Bush says, "A government-run health care system is the wrong prescription" (for America) he made sure that Iraq would get one. Article 30, Paragraph 1 of the new Iraqi constitution - -which the United States helped write - - says, "The state guarantees social and health insurance, the basics for a free and honorable life for the individual and the family. . . ." Read the U.S. House of Representatives News Release here: Bush Administration Ignores 44 Million Uninsured in U.S as it Awards Contract for Universal Health Care in Iraq

A universal health insurance system that works well for the major industrial nations in the world (and keeps them competitive in the global market place) is scoffed at by the Republican Party, the AMA, the pharmaceutical and private health insurance industry. And why? P R O F I T S $$$$ of course! This is splitting America in half. These special interest groups, vested corporations and the political party for the rich believes only in the virtues of private-for-profit industries. They are holding America (and Americans) hostage by lying to us and demanding we keep the status-quo, even though study-after-study shows America will save billions of dollars and be able to insure everyone with a universal (national) health insurance system.

Half of the Americans who file for bankruptcy do so because of medical bills. Three-quarters of the medically bankrupt had health insurance! (Study at Harvard University ). n We believe that in the richest, free nation in the world, everyone should have access to quality health care. They have spent and continue to spend millions of dollars to gain political influence and spread fearful rumors that national heath insurance would introduce the evils of "socialized medicine"; or we'll lose drug research & development; or we'll have medical rationing with long waits; or we'll have higher taxes.

These groups have fed well from the trough long enough. IT'S TIME FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE to get what they have paid for - - to get what they deserve - - to have the right to health care and have it guaranteed to us in our Constitution.

FlyingHighNow

How exactly does one have two or three jobs and no health care coverage? I've never even considered a job offer that didn't include full benefits. I've never had a full-time job that didn't offer benefits. What kind of work do you do that forces you to work two or three jobs with not enough money for the basics?

Well, then you are very fortunate and uninformed at the same time. Do you understand how many companies in this country do not provide health coverage or provide health insurance that is too expensive? I work in retail. Retail sales are down all over the USA and believe me, we employees feel the pinch. I work two jobs when I can to get my hours up to forty hours. Sometimes it takes three jobs to get my hours to that level. Yes, my work provides money for "basics". And I must share bills with Andy to make it. I cannot afford private insurance. Do you have any idea what it costs to get it when you have had costly medical problems in the past? My exhusband had a job where Loyd's of London underwrote me because I had a chronic illness.
When I had strep throat, I was in Connecticut for three and half months helping to care for my grandchildren, working for the same company I usually work for. I drove 40 miles into Rhode Island one way to get to that job. Did I have a family doctor there? No I didn't. Also, may I point out to you that my timing belt broke on my car. Although my son in law did the work on the car, I had to pay for the parts. And it took weeks. Meanwhile, I worked without an extra penny for anything. With my trip home coming up, my regular bills, engine parts and so on, I did not have the money to shell out 75 to see the urgent care doctor, plus more $ for strep test/lab work and then pay for an antibiotic. As you know even those are sometimes not cheap.
Jobs with affordable healthcare premiums aren't available to everyone. If they were, we'd all have insurance.
Enjoy your job with health insurance. Enjoy being content in thinking that anyone can live just like you do and have the freedom to make the exact choices you do. And I will hope for you that you can always ride the crest of the wave. I do not relish seeing anyone have to struggle to keep their noses above water. I hope you never have to choose not to go to the doctor because you simply cannot afford to go.
LDH

So then it comes down to this---what are you willing to sacrifice in order to get that needed education? And, why should I have to pay more for your health care? This is not a communist society, it's a capitalist society.
We as a family have also made sacrifices along the way. It's not just the 'poor' who make sacrifices. We pick our poison. Yesterday I was home sick and I was watching Judge Judy and I'll be damned if there wasn't a woman on there complaining that she did not have the $450 down payment a 'good' daycare required so she was 'stuck' with mediocre day care. Of course, the same month she bought a horse for $600 and paid $220 a month to board the sucker.
So it comes down to priorities for a lot of people.
You don't have to have a 4 year degree. You could get an 18 months degree. Or relocate. I can tell you this, if everything was stripped from me overnight, and I lost everything, I'd be swinging a hammer on a construction crew tomorrow morning in order to pay my way tomorrow night.
fairchild

Well said, Flying High Now, and being of the "I don't have insurance class" I definitely feel and know your frustration.
After reading through this thread, I have a feeling that some of the people who do have insurance think that people without insurance are to blame for their lack of insurance. This is adding insult to injury.
FlyingHighNow

You don't have to have a 4 year degree. You could get an 18 months degree.

LDH, has anyone ever pointed out to you, kindly, that you are judgmental? How do you know what schooling I have or what plans I have about getting more? You don't.

All I can say is can say is enjoy your life while it runs well. Life has a way of knocking us off our self made
pedestals and humbling us. I have been humbled many times. I realized a long time ago that adversity can be a grand teacher if you are open to its lessons.
mrsjones5

So it comes down to priorities for a lot of people.

In my humble opinion it comes down to availibility. Before I went to design school I had a teller job at a credit union with medical benefits. I wanted my AA degree in Fashion Design, so I gave up my job with medical benefits to be a student. I didnt have a job with medical benefits for 2 years when I was very fortunate to be hired to a full-time salaried job. A few years after that and after having 2 kids, I lost my last job along with my medical benefits. My husband was working a contract job with medical but was soon to be hired. I had to put my children on a state program for about 3 months just so they could keep up with their shots - I hated it. Luckily my husband was formally hired on with the company he was contracting with and we got back our benefits. I fully appreciated having medical benefits and fully realized they could be gone tomorrow regardless of my education and job skills.
Josie
LDH

FHN says
Well, then you are very fortunate and uninformed at the same time
Sorry, I've worked hard my whole life in the Health Insurance Industry. I recently left the for-profit side of the industry and work for a non-profit at this point, because that's the only sustainable health care that I can see that won't be taken over by the government.
President Bush has passed the Association Health plan bill but it is stalled by Teddy Kennedy who has vowed to give his life to filibuster this one. Why? Because guess who makes up good old Teddy's major political contributors? The UNIONS. SURPRISE. President Bush also passed the HSA health plan bill that will allow SOME (not a perfect plan) to save money.
I am very well aware of the problem of the uninsured, but I'm also not dumb to believe some people (not necessarily yourself so don't take this the wrong way) aren't making poor choices!
When people say the "governement" should pay for things, I sometimes wonder if they know there is no such thing as 'government'. It is made up of hard working people like myself and millions of others who are paying a significant portion of our income in taxes so that all citizens can at the least have a basic security blanket. You'll never hear me complain about taxes, because I think they are a necessary evil, but I also don't think government services should provide more than a basic security blanket of services in this capitalistic society. The money isn't magically printed, it's taken out of my check and everyone else's check who works.
Also sorry to tell you that there is plenty of health insurance options available for part time retail workers. Aetna's SRC plan, or Blue Cross' Tonik are just two options. And they are plenty affordable. It's your employer that sucks, not just the health insurance game.
Lisa
daniel-p

"And, why should I have to pay more for your health care?"

LDH, you misunderstand the basics of why you are paying MORE for insurance. You are paying more because we DON'T have health insurance.

Maybe you grew up in a secure household, maybe things just went OK with you, maybe you've never faced a life threatening illness. Count your blessings. Not all have it that good, and STOP JUDGING PLEASE.
mrsjones5

So what if none of the employers in her area are offering those plans? What then? Medical benefits cost employers, even if those plans are availible for part time workers that doesnt mean employers are going to offer them.

Health Care: A Right or a Privilege?

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