While these two terms basically have the same definition, I feel undeserved kindness gives a different connotation than the word grace. The New World Translation uses the first term over the second almost exclusively. When I think of a kindness extended to me by someone, while it is appreciated, it dosent really enforce an idea of an obligation of lasting debt. I will return the favor and I feel like we are somewhat even. But the word grace to me gives me the thought that repayment can not be calculated or transacted. I think Fred Franz's use of "undeserved kindness" fits the work oriented idea of earning life. By working hard for God we can some how repay God for his gift of life through his Son's sacrifice. Instead of appreciating his grace and expressing faith in it through Love of God and neighbor, Jws are indoctrinated with the idea of exclusivity of salvation by being a part of Gods organization and thier preaching activity. While at the same time condenming all other Christians. I remember giving a public talk and making the comment that there was alot of truth to the statement that we are saved by Grace...and you could see the puzzled looks on the audience's face and was even counseled after the meeting by the secretary. Told me to be carefull not to confuse the friends and 'hold to the pattern of healthful teaching' in other words dont deviate from watchtower dogma. Can anyone relate to this subtle manipulation?
Udeserved kindness Vs Grace
by theotherside 37 Replies latest members adult
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hubert
In comparing the NWT with the KJV Bible, I've noticed where the Watchtower used "undeserved kindness" in place of Grace, and also removed "Blessed" in all or most of the scriptures pertaining to Jesus.
IMHO, This is because they downplay Jesus, and only consider Him a "Good Man", therefore replacing him with the "organization".
Hubert
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Sunspot
TOS, you are absolutely right. Even the term "undeserved kindness" always made me feel that never deserved anything from God (hope I'm explaining this right) and I'd be expected to bow and scrape for him to even hear my prayers.
It gives a feeling of worthlessness, now matter what I ever did or would do. The term "grace" has a much milder and sweeter tone, much more in line with what I would expect from a loving and merciful God.
Annie
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garybuss
When I have referred to God in terms that implied God is real, my problem has been in proving it without using logic and reason because logic and reason are the tools of a skeptic.
My other problems with proving God is real has been (1) equal application of principle, (2) dealing with the validity of objective reality, and (3) finding a rational concept to profile a god not based on tradition or superstition.
Why not apply the concept of forgiveness to humans? Everyone can relate and it doesn't require assumptions. Everything a human can do or relate to is by necessity human in nature and outlook. -
Narkissos
I for one fail to see much semantic difference between "undeserved kindness" and "grace," at least as far as the use of kharis in Pauline theology (cf. "grace vs. wages") is concerned. It may be stylistically awkward, sounding more like a definition than a translation, but it is the general meaning of the word in this context. Outside of the Pauline corpus, however, this is much more debatable, because different meanings of the word "grace" are implied and there "undeserved kindness" is just meaningless (e.g. Luke 1:28ff; 2:40,52; 4:22; John 1:14,16f; Acts 2:47 etc.).
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AlmostAtheist
Udeserved kindness Vs Grace
"U-deserved", instead of "undeserved"... hmmm... Freudian slip?;-)
Dave
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theotherside
yea but not really, when u get in ur 40's u 4get how 2 spell gotta post with dictionary by ur side lol
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Billygoat
This subject has always been a little thorn to me with the JWs. Even if there isn't a symantic difference between the two phrases, I think there is a larger context difference. Undeserved kindness does not evoke a meaning or act of love. It is an obligation. Grace on the other hand, evokes a demonstration of love. Not out of obligation, but out of desire.
Since I have become a born-again Christian, I have experienced grace in my life. Thus it is easier to give grace to those around me. I think as a JW, it's hard to give grace because it's never received. Undeserved kindness might be given if you feel like it.
I guess to me it's more the motivation behind the words.
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Markfromcali
Well the word undeserved obviously implies the opposite of deserved, so it reflects a dualistic outlook. I don't know about you guys but I don't get that sense from the word grace. In fact, I don't see grace as a relational activity, it just is. It may shine through a particular interaction or life situation more clearly, but I think it's good to distinguish between the form it takes (and form will have the appearance of separation) and what's underlying the event that is happening. When there is that distinction then the experience of it won't be as limited to a religious (or any other mind-based) context but would be more likely to extend to everyday life.
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candidlynuts
substituting " undeserved kindness" for " grace" limits the definition of what i think the bible writers meant.
undeserved kindness is part of Gods grace but i think in reality it means much more.
love, forgiveness, tolerance, blessing, salvation etc.. an understanding from God that he knows we're imperfect but bestows his love and holy spirit to us to make us able to survive and handle what life throws at us.
i really think it 's wrong of the wtbs to totally erase this word from the bible.