Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

Globetrotter

I got into a rather heated discussion this morning with my unbaptised but raised Jehovah's Witness wife. We discussed so many things: Feb 1 Watchtower article on 607 and 1914, the UN, Beth Sarim, blood, God's mouthpiece here on earth, etc. This was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt. I culminated with her setting an appointment here on Saturday morning with 2 witnesses.

I do not know the bible as well as JWs, so I won't be able to keep up with their prooftexting. I need help. Are there one or two issues that could be systematically discussed that could possibly get that seed planted? This is really the last time I can attempt this. I cannot emotionally invest any more of myself in this nonsense and the resultant dysfunctionality.

I am afraid that the discussion will ultimately be pointless and that I will be a victim of 'new light' on so many issues. I cannot get her to see the intellectual dishonesty of 'new light', so I may be doomed before I get started. If I cannot get her to open her mind and think critically about their teachings, our marraige will effectively be over. It's a shame after 14 years and two kids, but this has been building for a long long time. Am I asking for help in saving my marraige? No. In my mind, it's pretty much over, and in fact, I want it to be over if I am to live my life with more of the same. This is as much a validation point for me as anything else, but if there is any hope of getting her out, I'll do it and see what is left to build upon.

Thanks.

asleif_dufansdottir

I'm afraid I'm not nearly as good as some (Blondie) here at coming up with answers off the top of my head...but I want to keep this near the top so others see it.

I think the membership in the UN issue is a pretty good one. Do the JWs still use the Revelation book? Can you get a copy? It pretty much trashes the UN, yet only a couple of years after we all studied it twice, they joined as an NGO, and stayed one for 10 years.

Of course, the pedophilia issue is much worse, but JWs dismiss it by just refusing to believe the accusers. There's a bit more undeniable evidence in the UN issue...although, unfortunately, most JWs deny it anyway.

You can't pry people's minds open with a crowbar, unfortunately.

seattleniceguy

Hi there.

I really don't like the scriptural debates - they never seem to go anywhere, in my experience - and trust me, I know the Bible far better than most Witnesses. I like the UN idea for its pure shock value and irrefutability. Here are a couple URLs:

This page talks about the involvement:
http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm

Nice powerpoint presentation detailing some of the blatant hypocrisy:
http://www.randytv.com/wtun_files/frame.htm

UN web site page showing the Watchtower article supporting the UN, in fulfillment of NGO requirements to support the UN's causes:
http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/materials/articles.htm

Hope that helps.
SNG

dustyb

quick word of advice, don't go scripturally because JW's don't read the bible ;) all you needa do is if she's actually your wife, ask her if you've given her any reason to doubt you in the past. and then just be up and front and tell her that you have a guilty consience about not speaking up about her, and how you can't stand seeing her taken advantage of. I have an extremely guilty consience beacuse i see all of this going on and i'm not speaking up yet. So just tell her, be truthful and if you have to, show texts from WT that support the fact that they really don't know what the hell they're talking about. np

A Paduan

From Jonah - God repented of the evil which he had said he would do to them; and he did not do it.

Other texts have "God changed his mind........"

Jws hate this type of new light - quote the text and tell them that you don't believe the world will end because society is increasing things like social security, care for the sick, welfare etc, the more IMPORTANT expressions of a christian spirit - and so it is likely that God will "change His mind" just like it says in Jonah.

But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was angry.

that's how it will be with some people

Gadget

I brought up the UN issue with some jws and they just labeled it as apostate lies and refused to accept it. I asked if they would do things for a friend because they loved them. But if the same friend pulled a gun on them and threatened to kill them if they didn't do what they wanted would they be doing it because they loved their friend or because they were going to kill them if they didn't. And if their friend would treat them like that it would make the friend a pretty horrible person wouldn't it. And I brought up something in the newspaper about children being murdered. (Do a google search on Ian Huntley). Everybody agreed how bad it was for this to happen, so I asked how amny 10 yr olds jehovah is going to kill at armeggedon, and why its ok for him to do it but so bad for someone else. Another aspect of that case was that he had history of sex offences that were not known even though he worked in a school which everyone kicked up a big fuss about. But isn't this the same that happens in the cong because of the two witness rule?

midwest

welcome globetrotter , i am in the same situation my wife of 12 years was exposed to jw through her family but walked away in here teens , then i found out she began studing about 2 years ago. i also asked for & meet with 2 elders at my reguest. we are still together but our live together is not the same and never will be. for me i've tried to plant seeds of doubt ie. studing with elders, reading c.o.c. by ray franz , but nothing will work if she wont open here mind and think & guestion things for herself. im staying in with my wife for i have 2 sons i will keep out of the j-dubs control''. if you attempt to use the elders as i have to regain your wife be carefull of any thing you say to them in private they will advise her at a latter time, this will come back to haunt you. also as a side note i've been accused by my wife of every thing from being a apostate , being against god , presucating her , mental heath problems , depression , domestic abuse , all of these accusation came at the same time of her studing these with her groups. if i can be of any support please pm me and i'll send you a e-mail good luck and God be with you. , midwest

pc

Globetrotter,

I know exactly how you feel. I'm going through a similiar situation with my family. The only advice I can give is to passive in your remarks. Try not to be acusetory because that's what the JW's love. They really want to be the victim. They see it as persecution and again the whole "end of the last days" thing. If your wife is studing because of a spiritual need address that. The witnesses always say they can use any bible to study with you. So suggest a different bible. That might begin to help her. I was raised as a witness and even though I left years ago, I still in my heart believed thier doctrines. One day I was reading a NIV bible and started to see the deception of the JW's. I was never the spritual JW, but my eyes were opened and I 've been researching about them since. It was as if a light went off. Just remember to have problems with your family is exactly what they want. Then she will get more invloved and then they can count more time!!!

regards PC

AnnOMaly

This was yet another attempt on my part to try to plant a seed of doubt

if there is any hope of getting her out

There's the problem. You want to 'get her out.' You want to prove to her that it's all nonsense. Although you feel your motives are noble, that kind of pressure will drive you further apart and/or make her more determined to stick to the org. Leave her alone. Respect her views (even though you disagree). Try and figure out the real issues in your marriage and work on those.

If I cannot get her to open her mind and think critically about their teachings, our marraige will effectively be over. It's a shame after 14 years and two kids,

Does your marriage really hinge on her seeing the 'truth about the Truth'? Does she really have to see things YOUR way, or the marriage is over? C'mooon! I may have read you all wrong, but it sounds like you want to snap up for yourself the power the WTS appear to have over your wife.

I do not know the bible as well as JWs, so I won't be able to keep up with their prooftexting. I need help.

What's the appointment for? More bickering? Forget discussing the Bible with them. Refuse to discuss doctrine - you have your conclusions, end of story. Drink coffee, discuss vacations and football, BE NICE, then send them on their way with a friendly wave.

Of course, if you want your marriage to fail and have religion as the scapegoat, go right ahead.

By the way, it's interesting your wife never got baptized.

Gadget

Does your marriage really hinge on her seeing the 'truth about the Truth'? Does she really have to see things YOUR way, or the marriage is over? C'mooon! I may have read you all wrong, but it sounds like you want to snap up for yourself the power the WTS appear to have over your wife.

Things can hinge on that. I was engaged to be married when I said that I didn't want to got to meetings anymore. She said she loved me so much, but could not live her life with someone who was not a jw. So my relationship really did hinge on her seeing the 'truth about the truth'. Because she didn't understand where I was coming from, she followed the elders advice to keep away from me, and there has been plenty of examples on this board where the same thing has happened to married couples too. Give the guy a break, he must be going through enough stress right now with out you having a go at him.

Witnesses coming Saturday... I need HELP!!!!

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