Posts by Robert_V

203

Anyone heard of Watchtower policy change concerning pedophiles

by Robert_V_Frazier in

i'm passing this along from someone else on another discussion board.

the claim of any substantive change in the policy on pedophiles is news to me.

can anybody verify or falsify this claim?.

Robert_V_Frazier

Thanks, everybody. I told the author of the post I quoted where to find this thread.

You guys are great!

Robert V Frazier

203

Anyone heard of Watchtower policy change concerning pedophiles

by Robert_V_Frazier in

i'm passing this along from someone else on another discussion board.

the claim of any substantive change in the policy on pedophiles is news to me.

can anybody verify or falsify this claim?.

I'm passing this along from someone else on another discussion board. The claim of any substantive change in the policy on pedophiles is news to me. Can anybody verify or falsify this claim? Thanks in advance! Robert V Frazier

From gratefuldude: My brother is a jw and we had some interesting discussions about the policy of reporting of sexual abuse and particularly pedophiles in the congregation.

My brother questioned an elder about the two witness rule that they use to determine if one has been abused.If a child for example accuses an elder or member of abusing her/him, the elders interrogate the victim and say essentially if you do not have two witnesses and the pedophile denies it, there is noting they can do. And if one tries to warn the others in the congregation that abuse has taken place, they stand a good chance of being disfellowshipped.

According to my brother, after a meeting where the speaker mentioned the sins of the Catholic Church concerning hiding the abuse and moving the abuser; my brother asked him how they could condemn the Catholics while they were doing the same things. My brother saw the television documentaries and was aware of the payouts and hush money to the victims.

I don't recall the elders answer but my brother called me with good news and said because the WT had to pay out so much money they now reported to the police each occurrence of abuse and dis-allowed pedophiles from going door to door. I suspected this New Light was meant to shut my brother up. I can't see them admitting they were wrong all of these years and having to apologise to the victims.?? I also found it interesting that their reason for changing this policy was due to law suits and not because it was the right thing to do.

So does anyone know if the two witness rule is still their policy? If it has been changed has their been a public statement to let the members know.? And last but not least wouldn't a change that would require the police to investigate all abuse allegations mean their two witness rule was wrong and therefore the Bible was wrong as they interpret it.? There is much information on this subject of sexual abuse at Silent Lambs if anyone is interested. . Thanks for any information one might have on this subject.

27

Hosting Site for J.R. Brown Interview by LDH

by Big Tex in

jw
friends

revmalk has graciously agreed to host ldh's interview with j.r. brown.

http://www.lambsroar.org/jrbrown-interview-1.wma.

http://www.lambsroar.org/jrbrown-interview-2.wma.

Robert_V_Frazier

Brown: "That last part, to be absolutely correct, I would say, 'No. We do not go out and say we're the only true religion.'"

JW's do go out and say that they are the only true religion. In fact, in the Watch Tower Publication Index 1986-2005, under the heading "JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES", there is an entry: "only true religion". It has the following list of publication references which the Watchtower Society itself, not Robert V Frazier, has selected to substantiate the official JW doctrine that the Jehovah's Witnesses constitute the "only true religion":

only true religion: bh 145-6, 148-51; ol 22, 24; w01 2/1 10; w01 6/1 12-17; jt 29; w95 4/15 3, 7-9; w93 7/1 17; jv 703-16; pe 184-90; rs 203-4; br78 29

If necessary, I can quote every one of the articles referenced above. But honestly, the fact that the Society has published that list under that heading proves that Mr. Brown was lying deliberately when he said the words I quoted above.

Robert V Frazier

The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or any set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in The Watchtower. (The Watchtower, 1931 November 1 p.327)If you believe that, you'll believe ANYTHING!

6

well I just got a chuckle!

by sweetstuff in

my seven year old is doing her homework, and i hear this horrified gasp.

she stomps towards me, "mommy this book they gave us is bad!

", she shows me a page, where a farmer has put up a poster of puppies for sale: .

Robert_V_Frazier

"The dog has returned to the disgusting thing." I wonder what that is?

An old back issue of The Watchtower.

Robert V Frazier

What REALLY happened in 1975!

by Robert_V_Frazier in

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicid=2623.

.

robert v frazier

Robert_V_Frazier

http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2623

Robert V Frazier

28

2006 THANKSGIVING MENU AT BETHEL

by Scorpion in

2006 thanksgiving menu at bethel .

new world diner .

welcome to new world food and "spirits".

Robert_V_Frazier

Another refreshing beverage: slimy juice of marshmallow! Ideal for people on no-salt or no-taste diets! Robert V Frazier

1

The ballad of Joe Rutherford

by Robert_V_Frazier in

this here's a little song i just composed today, sung to the tune of "the ballad of jed clampett", theme song to "the beverly hillbillies":.

come 'n listen to the tale of rutherford the "judge",.

a biblical illiterate whose brains were made of fudge,.

Robert_V_Frazier

This here's a little song I just composed today, sung to the tune of "The Ballad of Jed Clampett", theme song to "The Beverly Hillbillies":

Come 'n listen to the tale of Rutherford the "judge",
A biblical illiterate whose brains were made of fudge,
The end o' the world he was tryin' to contrive,
So he said, "The resurrection is in nineteen-twenty-five!"
New light, that is, false hope, total crap

Well, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the rest,
Joe said, "Hey, they'll need to move out west!"
Said, "Californy is the place they'll love the best!"
So he bought him a mansion, and then he named it "Beth"
Sarim, that is, "House of Princes", scam for fools

Well, 'twenty-five has come and gone, an' Rutherford has too,
But his followers still have a scam they'ld like to sell to you,
You're all invited now to read their magazines and books,
An' join their happy gang of fanatical kooks
Jay-Dubya's, that is, doomsday cult, shut your brains off

Obey the FDS now, y'hear?

Robert V Frazier

24

Kissing the Elders Butts

by Dr Jekyll in

.

ok who's going to own up to sending one of these... http://www.madzay.com/product/product_view.aspx?uid=50af9a87-5606-42a7-8d7f-606f0a8536fe.

Robert_V_Frazier

Here's a touching sentiment, from the same source:

alt

http://www.madzay.com/product/product_view.aspx?UID=22700d27-bb6e-491e-8fb0-8d8c283c2583

"I love you, but I'm just not sure for how long. It's kind of indefinite. A while, maybe."

Robert V Frazier

29

Questions regarding the Cross/Torture stake

by truthseeker1 in

this was brought up by my journey and they requested information regarding it.

this is a quote from the page below regarding how the wt takes other's words out of context to fit their own agenda.

quote..........misquote:.

Robert_V_Frazier

Leolaia wrote:

I haven't seen any WT literature since 1991, so I really don't know what they've said since or continue to say. I would really love it if someone can post post-1991 stuff where they justify their belief that crux and stauros did not mean cross.

There hasn't been all that much, and what there is just rehashes the same tired, refuted bilge as before. Here it is:

*** w92 11/15 p. 7 The Cross—Symbol of Christianity? ***
The Cross—Symbol of Christianity?
FOR centuries multitudes have accepted the cross as a symbol of Christianity. But is it really? Many who have sincerely believed so are quite surprised to learn that the cross is not at all unique to Christendom. On the contrary, it has been widely used in non-Christian religions all over the world.
For example, in the early 1500’s, as Hernán Cortés and his "Christian" army prepared to attack the Aztec Empire‚ they carried banners proclaiming, "Let us follow the sign of the Holy Cross in true faith, for under this sign we shall conquer." They must have been surprised to find that their pagan enemies venerated a cross not unlike their own. The book Great Religions of the World says: "Cortés and his followers recoiled from human sacrifices of the Aztecs and what seemed like satanic parodies of Christianity: . . . venerating crosslike symbols of wind and rain gods."
In an editorial in the newspaper La Nación, writer José Alberto Furque points out that in the second half of the 18th century, there began "a fiery and exciting debate among anthropologists and archaeologists on the origins and meaning of the cruciform signs" they were finding across much of Central and South America. Apparently some had been so eager to protect the status of the cross as a uniquely "Christian" symbol that they propounded the theory that somehow the Americas had been evangelized before Columbus’ landmark voyage! This farfetched notion had to be discarded as unfounded.
In time, further discoveries in the field put all such debate to rest. Furque notes: "In a work published in 1893 by the Smithsonian Institution, it was established that the cross was already venerated . . . long before the arrival of the first Europeans in North America‚ which confirms the theory . . . that such a symbol appeared in all communities as part of cultic worship of the forces that originate life."
The Bible shows that Jesus was not executed on a conventional cross at all but, rather, on a simple stake, or stau·ros´. This Greek word, appearing at Matthew 27:40‚ basically means a simple upright beam or pole, such as those used in building foundations. Hence, the cross never represented true Christianity. Jesus Christ identified the real symbol, or "mark," of true Christianity when he told his followers: "By this all will know that you are my disciples‚ if you have love among yourselves."—John 13:35.

*** w95 5/15 p. 20 Part 1—Flashes of Light—Great and Small ***
The Cross—Not a Christian Symbol
19
For many years the Bible Students made the cross prominent as a symbol of Christianity. They even had a "cross-and-crown" pin. According to the King James Version, Jesus asked his followers to take up their "cross," and many came to believe that he was executed on a cross. (Matthew 16:24; 27:32) For decades this symbol also appeared on the cover of the Watch Tower magazine.
20
The book Riches, published by the Society in 1936, made clear that Jesus Christ was executed, not on a cross, but on an upright pole, or stake. According to one authority, the Greek word (stau·ros´) rendered "cross" in the King James Version "denotes, primarily, an upright pale or stake. [It is] to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed cross. . . . The latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz." Far from being idolized, the instrument on which Jesus was impaled should be viewed with revulsion.
19, 20. Why can the cross not be a symbol of true Christianity?

*** rq (What Does God Require of Us?) lesson 11 p. 23 par. 6 Beliefs and Customs That Displease God ***
6. Cross: Jesus did not die on a cross. He died on a pole, or a stake. The Greek word translated "cross" in many Bibles meant just one piece of timber. The symbol of the cross comes from ancient false religions. The cross was not used or worshiped by the early Christians. Therefore, do you think it would be right to use a cross in worship?—Deuteronomy 7:26; 1 Corinthians 10:14.

*** bh (What Does the Bible Really Teach?) pp. 204-206 Why True Christians Do Not Use the Cross in Worship ***
Why True Christians Do Not Use the Cross in Worship
THE cross is loved and respected by millions of people. The Encyclopædia Britannica calls the cross "the principal symbol of the Christian religion." Nevertheless, true Christians do not use the cross in worship. Why not?
An important reason is that Jesus Christ did not die on a cross. The Greek word generally translated "cross" is stau·ros´. It basically means "an upright pale or stake." The Companion Bible points out: "[Stau·ros´] never means two pieces of timber placed across one another at any angle . . . There is nothing in the Greek of the [New Testament] even to imply two pieces of timber."
In several texts, Bible writers use another word for the instrument of Jesus’ death. It is the Greek word xy´lon. (Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; Galatians 3:13; 1 Peter 2:24) This word simply means "timber" or "a stick, club, or tree."
Explaining why a simple stake was often used for executions, the book Das Kreuz und die Kreuzigung (The Cross and the Crucifixion), by Hermann Fulda, states: "Trees were not everywhere available at the places chosen for public execution. So a simple beam was sunk into the ground. On this the outlaws, with hands raised upward and often also with their feet, were bound or nailed."
The most convincing proof of all, however, comes from God’s Word. The apostle Paul says: "Christ by purchase released us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: ‘Accursed is every man hanged upon a stake ["a tree," King James Version].’" (Galatians 3:13) Here Paul quotes Deuteronomy 21:22, 23, which clearly refers to a stake, not a cross. Since such a means of execution made the person "a curse," it would not be proper for Christians to decorate their homes with images of Christ impaled.
There is no evidence that for the first 300 years after Christ’s death, those claiming to be Christians used the cross in worship. In the fourth century, however, pagan Emperor Constantine became a convert to apostate Christianity and promoted the cross as its symbol. Whatever Constantine’s motives, the cross had nothing to do with Jesus Christ. The cross is, in fact, pagan in origin. The New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The cross is found in both pre-Christian and non-Christian cultures." Various other authorities have linked the cross with nature worship and pagan sex rites.
Why, then, was this pagan symbol promoted? Apparently, to make it easier for pagans to accept "Christianity." Nevertheless, devotion to any pagan symbol is clearly condemned by the Bible. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18) The Scriptures also forbid all forms of idolatry. (Exodus 20:4, 5; 1 Corinthians 10:14) With very good reason, therefore, true Christians do not use the cross in worship.
[Footnote]
For a more detailed discussion of the cross, see pages 89-93 of the book Reasoning From the Scriptures, published by Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Robert V Frazier

35

The NWT....

by Sunspot in

is it really a scholarly translation?.

(excerps taken from) .

http://www.xmark.com/focus/pages/jehovahs.html.

Robert_V_Frazier

inquirer:

Is there anyone on here that LIKES the NWT, apart from me?

I hope not!

I think the NIV is extremely biased, how that is one of the best selling Bibles, I'll never know. How people can read a Bible that says "thee" and "thou like the King James Version is beyond comprehension.

I think you must be confusing the NIV with the NASB. There are no "thees" or "thous" in the NIV. Nor is it "extremely biased". It was done with the deliberate intention of minimizing any doctrinal or denominational bias, and it does a good job on that score.

Robert V Frazier

Robert_V_Frazier

Posts by Robert_V_Frazier