Watchtower, Russell, Freemasons and the Illuminati

by truth_about_the_truth 54 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  zen nudist

  You hit the nail on the head. Christians DONT reject the freemasons. True Christians SHOULD reject any type of freemasonry.

  This is why I believe all religions are a diversion from the real truth.

  I got news for you pal, the freemasons are the closest to the original gnostics who started christianity and the christians you consider the "real" ones are the ones who stole it from them by force and murder...... there is no evidence whatso ever that the original christianity was anything more than a rework of the mysteries taught in egypt and greece which has been passed down to the masons.
• 

  Satanus

  Then there are the rosicrucians. They are a subset of the masons. They are more into the spiritual practices than are the masons. Masons are more into spirits

  S
• 

  truth_about_the_truth

  Yes its the deeeminzzz.

  If you dont believe in them, it's up to you.

  I assume with these types of cynical resposes that a lot of you no longer believe in higher entities of existence whether good or bad. That's fine too.

  Unfortunately it seems that your negative experiences with the WT and religion in general has seemed to trivialize these types of important issues and turned them into a joke. I think of it as a defense mechanism because of the emotional, psychological wounds because of what you have gone through. It's completely understandable, I'm there too.

  Just remember this thread when you start seeing a different world around you. You aint seen nuthin yet. If you think nothing is changing and things will stay the same, I have news for you...it's already happening. You just dont see it on CNN that's all.

  I just want to throw that out there. Do what you want with it.
• 

  melmac

  Hey, truth... is it my impression or your avatar is trying to hypnotize me?
• 

  abbagail

  truth_about_the_truth posted:
  "For instance, one J.W. Illuminati family was the Udell family (Scottish name) who married Picketson Milliken (English maiden name with Jewish first husband)....."
  
  FWIW, during he 1980s, I had a CO whose name was Milliken, lol.
  
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  BeezleDub wrote:
  "Russell was never a Freemason. http://www.masonicinfo.com/famousnon.htm"
  
  My 2-cents:
  
  If you want the truth about the WT, would you go ask the WT?
  If you want the truth about Masons, why would you ask a Mason? They are just as "brainwashed" as JWs are about the WT.
  
  That masonicinfo site bashes everybody who says anything bad about masons, just like the WT bashes those who speak against it. I wouldn't put much confidence in what the masons have to say.
  
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  candidly nuts wrote:
  "ugh....i dont doubt anything anymore.. all i wanna know is.. how do i get in on some money and power for myself.. being poor SUCKS!"
  
  I don't advocate it, but as a joke, check out this site I ran across the other day: http://www.lifechangetips.com
  
  By using his "11th Element" system, this guy says he can bring you happiness, wealth, etc. "You can Have It All!" is one of his motto's. (btw, #11 is the # of antichrist).
  
  And get a load of his logo while you're at it! (Some think the pyramid/triangle symbol will be the "mark (tattoo) of the beast" rather than the implanted digital chip. Pyramid + #11, this guy's been duped by the "Invisible" NWO Agenda.)
  
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  link wrote:
  ... this is an example (sort of information) of what somebody (Watchtower troll) might do (drop onto the board) to discredit others ("apostates") in the eyes of doubting JW's (waverers).
  
  Back in the day, at least SOME JWs knew about the Illuminati. That's where I first heard about it back around 1981 from an older JW chiropractor who had the audio-tapes about it. I still have a xerox copy of the back of the dollar-bill pyramid/eye of horus explanation that some JW gave me way back then.
  
  Now, do/did those JWs think Russell and/or WT was PART of the Illuminati? I don't know. But that long-time JW/chiro eventually left the org, and I don't know the reason why. Maybe he knew something we didn't...
  
  --------------
  
  If you guys haven't seen this site yet, check out all of the business/gov't. logos here: www.samliquidation.com/section_16.htm
  
  ttat wrote:
  I assume with these types of cynical resposes that a lot of you no longer believe in higher entities of existence whether good or bad. That's fine too.
  Unfortunately it seems that your negative experiences with the WT and religion in general has seemed to trivialize these types of important issues and turned them into a joke.
  
  All of that was exactly my thought about two years ago so I just went off and created my own little "niche" at yahoo where I could express my thoughts and research freely. (I sent you the location, FWIW, via msg.) You won't get much of a listening-ear here about the NWO agenda.
  
  Yet funny how the WT named their very own bible the "NEW WORLD Translation." Not too long ago I was curious about this so I was looking in the old indexes to see when they began using the term.
  
  1930-1985 WT Publications Index:
  
  pg. 604 lists "NEW ORDER"
  (Jehovah's, After Armageddon)
  (SEE: New System of Things) which is found on the next page, pg. 605.
  
  pg. 606 lists 'NEW WORLD"
  (SEE: New System of Things)
  
  pg. 607 lists "NEW WORLD SOCIETY"
  1st mention of this phrase: W/1950, pg. 413-418; W/1962, pg. 204; JP (JWs Divine Purpose) pg. 253 (published in 1959); and You May Survive Armageddon, pg. 273 (published 1955).
  [Remember, this is the 1930-1985 index. So they never used "NEW WORLD Society" prior to that 1950 WT?]
  
  1986-1988 WT Publications Index:
  pg. 126 "NEW ORDER"
  (SEE: NEW WORLD)
  
  pg. 127 "New System of Things"
  (SEE: NEW WORLD)
  
  Under "NEW WORLD"
  appropriate: 5/1/87, pg. 30-31
  
  Summary (from what I can tell from these two indexes):
  1. WT first began using the phrase NEW WORLD SOCIETY in a 1950 WT (1930-1985 Index).
  2. There's no longer a "New World SOCIETY" subhead in this later Index (1986-1988).
  
  In other words, the prior '30-'85 Index used to say for "New Order" and "New World" to go see "New System of Things." Now all references '86-'88 Index simply say, "SEE: NEW WORLD."
  
  Maybe it means nothing at all, but since the WT still calls itself a SOCIETY, I wondered why/when they dropped the "New World SOCIETY"/"New System of Things" phrases and began using full-time, instead, the "New World" phrase. And it appears they did this somewhere between 1986-1988, which was the same time Geo. W. Bush, Sr. began using the "New World Order" phrase publicly. I distinctly remember hearing him say this on TV in the late 1980s because I was shocked, and remember getting chills, thinking, "HEY, THAT'S WHAT WE CALL IT. WHY is HE using it?" :-/
  
  Anybody else remember thinking the same thing?
  
  Is WT part of the NWO agenda? Whether they are or not doesn't negate the existence of it (and I could care less if WT is part of it or not, or whether CTR was a mason or not), but it wouldn't surprise me in the least bit if WT HAS been infiltrated. Where do you think they got their "mind control" techniques from? POSSIBLY from here: "The Mormons affiliated years ago in a meeting with Illuminati leadership in the 1950s. The same with the Jehovah's Witnesses" per the article at Dr. Henry Makow's site: http://www.savethemales.ca/141002.html
  
  Did the "tone" of WT lit change during that time period? I wasn't around that far back.
  
  There really is such an accumulation of "evidence" out there about the Illuminati, NWO, Masons, associated secret societies, etc., it's amazing to me more people are not open-minded about it. I could post dozens of links but I'm sure they've all been posted here before (there ARE first-hand accounts from former Illuminists, btw, such as Doc Marquis, Bill Schnoebelen, Svali, etc.). It's not just on the net either. Just turn on the TV. They are "dropping hints" left and right and sitting back laughing their arses off about it, at how blind the masses are, which is exactly how they want humanity to stay.
  
  Oh well, I'm talking to myself, lol. This thread died several days ago.
  /ag
  
  PS: Oh, and I DO believe in the deeemonz, lol!
• 

  LittleToe

  Whilst I do believe in spirit entities, I don't believe the WTS is promoting the NWO "conspiracy", and here's some examples (not exhaustive) as to why I offer that perspective:

  1. they are condemnatory of the Freemasons and other secret societies
  2. they don't rely on symbology, alleghory, or magic
  3. they do promote the Father, as represented by the divine name YHWH
  4. they are not tolerant of any other name but "Jehovah", ruling out AUM, etc.
  5. they are not tolerant of other faiths or politics
  6. they don't support the nation in which they live, esp. regarding politics and war
  7. they don't believe in the immortality of the soul, and especially not reincarnation

  Would you like to address these points?
  Unless you can undermine them all, you're barking up the wrong tree, as these are core tenets of organisations that are allegedly under the NWO/Illuminati/occult umbrella.

  Now I will accept that they have some things in common, for example:

  1. mock communion
  2. denigration of the deity of Christ
  3. salvation by works

  However I suspect this is totally insufficient to categorise the whole organisation/cult in the camp that you would suggest.

  Of course that doesn't mean that some JWs weren't once members, and I suspect the guy who suggested the crown and cross pin (Knights Templar, in origin) to have been one, but there's no direct evidence for this and never has been.
• 

  abbagail

  Hi LT, I don't think you were addressing me (??), but I'd like to throw out a few quick superficial thoughts that just came to mind after reading your well-presented list...
  
  1. WT is a hierarchy same as CC, Masons, etc. even though they claim NOT to be. From the Top-Down is how WT works, same as these others.
  
  2. WT is a "secret org within an org" same as Masons, even though, again, they would swear they are not.
  
  3. WT may not use symbology any more (except for the famous WT symbol), but they do use verbal-symbology, ie, repetitive terminology for 'brainwashing;' and they have their own "in-house lingo," etc. just like other cult-type groups, which includes the masons.
  
  4. Promoting the Father JHVH, true, but so do Masons. It was an elderly JW lady who first told me years ago that the "secret code of the masons" was the same JHVH of the WT. At the time I thought, 'cool, they must be like us.' Duh! (Granted, WT is not "interfaith" like Masons).
  
  5. As for not tolerating politics, that's only for the sheep to think about their org, wouldn't you agree? as the org itself does dabble in politics to promote their agenda (whether it be the prior UN scandal or the mingling with the Holocaust foundations to promote themselves, etc.) and who knows what else they are into behind the scenes.
  
  6. As for allegory, the entire WT belief system is based on the allegorical understanding of scripture vs. a literal interpretation. They are not alone in this, even though they say they have the only 'true' understanding of scripture. The WT along with quite a few other major denominatins promote Replacement (or Covenant) Theology, or as we used to read it in the mags/books, an "allegorical interpretation" of scripture (replacing the 3,600 instances of Israel and Jerusalem with "church/JWs" and "heaven" : http://www.watch.org/showprint.php3?idx=64261&mcat=1&rtn=/index.html
  
  7. WT spies on its members (or so I've heard) as do the Masons, lol! (or so I've read).
  
  -----
  
  Now I'm not promoting that any of that "proves" WT has most definitely, w/o a doubt, enlisted itself with the NWO Agenda. Yet, whether wittingly or unwittingly, as I've mentioned in the past, it seems to me they are setting up their "flock" to possibly be deceived by the whole thing, ie,
  
  1. WT does teach its followers to be on the lookout for a "New World Order" (via 1,000 reign of Christ, albeit WT-style) to commence following Armageddon.
  
  2. WT does NOT teach its followers correctly about prophecy and the Middle East/Israel/China/Russia, etc. so might they be fooled when events proceed in a direction they never anticipated?
  
  3. WT does NOT teach its followers there will be a literal "marking by the beast" so when that is required via an implant-chip or tattoo or whatever method, in order to "buy and sell," but JWs think the mark is merely an invisible "agreement" via your hand (the work you do) or in your head (mental agreement), might they be deceived and go along with the chip or tattoo, etc.?
  
  4. WT does NOT teach its followers to be on the lookout for The Antichrist, hence, would it not be possible for the "flock" to be deceived by The Antichrist when he appears on the world stage, thinking him to be their WT-Jesus?
  In other words, JWs think Jesus will come back to fight Armageddon.
  Antichrist, however, is the one who will appear on the world stage FIRST, right after WW3, which may look like Armageddon to the average-JW. So the JWs might THINK this guy is the real-Jesus, because they are NOT expecting an Antichrist first. See what I mean?
  
  I'm getting off-base as to the WT/NWO connection, so I'll just hush up. I just feel the JWs are on a dangerous path of deception for their followers, ever how you look at it, whether they are INTENTIONALLY part of the NWO-conspiracy or not.
  /ag
  
  PS: What strikes me as funny is WT used to teach us that because the CC and/or literal Israel were both "rotten to their core" due to the CC's pagan practices, and Israel's rejection of Jesus, that neither, therefore, could ever be "fixed" and acceptable in God's sight. Yet WT's very foundation was also "rotten to the core" with its Egyptian symbols, false prophecies, etc. whether THEY LIKE IT OR NOT. Pot calling the kettle black. I just hope all JWs jump ship while there's still time and go to the Rock and Him alone! ;-)
• 

  Pleasuredome

  isnt the pyramid with the all seeing eye something to do with some hidden treasure?

  LT,

  i was wondering about your comment that the WTS condemns freemasonry and secret societies. i havent read any literature that said as much, other than an odd few words mentioned in a couple of books that a christian shouldnt be part of a secretive society. (just a minute!! isnt that the WTS??)
• 

  LittleToe

  abbagail:
  I've read plenty of that kind of stuff in anti-masonic sites (usually promoted by Southern Baptists, who had some issues with some leading lights, who were Masons).

  Bear in mind, for a moment, that I live in Scotland. This is the heartland of Freemasonry. I am surrounded by Freemasons (I'm offer that I'm not one myself, nor ever have been) and have found them to be more kindly and genuine than most (and there's no way to compare them at all to the JWs, in that regard).

  I'll take a single one of your points on - that of the heirarchy. We are human, and you'll find heirarchies inherent in ever human system, right through to small business.

  I don't know why you brought the Catholic Church into the debate (I'm not a Catholic, either). They tend to be generally quite loving, too. Further, several Popes have decried the Masonic movement and forbidded association by it's members.

  PD:"The eye of Horus".

  The "hidden treasure" thing that you're probably thinking of is the "Holy Grail", which Masons tend to be a bit obsessed about, too.

  You're right about them not categorically directly condemning Freemasons. They have had articles openly condemning "secret societies" though, and a search of the literature reveals a pattern. Every instance of the word "Freemason", in experiences, etc., leads to the comments that the individual lef the Masons on becoming a JW. The "direction" from "mother" is fairly clear.
• 

  Ianone

  Keep up the good work "truth_about_the_truth." It has taken many years for people to realize that there was a massive plot in Dallas that killed JFK, and its only been a few years and people are waking up to the fact that the WTC was an inside job. Remember, these ex j dubs who scoff at the masonic and Talmudic Jewish founding the Watchtower are still under the mindset of Cognitive Dissonance. Although they have finally exited a highly conditioned mind controlling cult, they are still under the influence to discredit and even demonize anyone or anything that shows them information contrary to their currently held views. Keep spreading the truth.