America Bashing (page 2)

Seeker

Seeker, I agree.

I'm glad you could appreciate the shades of grey in my post, and not just think of it as a black and white issue. I appreciate America very much; I just wish citizens would stand up for their rights instead of having them taken away. However, when you say this:

[quoteThis is what happens with when liberal people want the government to run their lives. That's why I'm proudly a conservative.[/quote]

I agree with your first sentence (except for the word 'liberal'). I disagree with your second sentence. Most American abdicate responsiblity, liberal and conservative. But it is the conservative element that most objects to freedom. Yes, I mean that. In the sense that if you want to peacefully protest the status quo, who objects the loudest? The conservatives.

I blame both sides for this mess. Both sides are in the process of allowing rights to be eroded. This is not an Us-versus-Them game.

reagan_oconnor

----->Hi-five's TR! Conservative, man!!

=)

I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul.

TR

Seeker,

But it is the conservative element that most objects to freedom. Yes, I mean that. In the sense that if you want to peacefully protest the status quo, who objects the loudest? The conservatives.

I'll respectfully disagree with that statement.

The conservative element for the most part, would enjoy relieving the population of restrictive laws and laws that put the government in charge of various aspects of people lives.

TR

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every
form of tyranny over the mind of man." --Thomas Jefferson*

TR

reagan,

Hi fives back at ya! Hope I didn't miss!

TR

"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every
form of tyranny over the mind of man." --Thomas Jefferson*

Seeker

I'll respectfully disagree with that statement.

Thanks for being respectful.

The conservative element for the most part, would enjoy relieving the population of restrictive laws and laws that put the government in charge of various aspects of people lives.

In many ways you are right. But the example I gave stands. The conservatives would like to get the government off their backs, but they applaud when the government gets all over those they disagree with. It is conservatives who applaud when the government surveils those who are against their way of life. It is conservatives who support corporations while they erode our rights.

The fact that liberals now do this too, and are also more likely to want the government to be a nanny-state, does not let conservatives off the hook. Both sides are guilty.

fodeja

TR and others,

I'm still scratching my head over this national pride thing. Maybe some of you can shed some light on this, as it is very foreign to me.

I have been lucky enough to spend my (still young) life in more than one country and continent on this little planet. I've seen some places. My family background is rather diverse. Probably that's why nationalistic pathos seems to utterly ridiculous to me. People have their good and their bad sides, they live in more or less democratic nations, and this is changing all the time. Some countries go from bad to good, then the other way round. Greatest nation on this planet, now and forever? The idea seems totally ridiculous to me. When I see people stand up, put their hands on their chest and get a weird religious glaze in their eyes just because some national anthem is playing, I feel like laughing and shaking my head at the same time.

Tell me one thing: how can you be _proud_ of being an American? I can fully understand being proud of an _accomplishment_: leading a good life, raising kids, learning a language, inventing cold fusion or just being nice to your neighbour. I can understand being proud of shaping a nation's course in some way. I can understand being grateful for being born in the first world, in a free and wealthy land.
But how, precisely, can one be _proud_ of being born in one particular area of this planet? To me, that's just totally silly. It's exactly as silly as being proud of having a white skin.

If you feel such an urge to be proud of something, be proud of being a decent person. Unfortunately, that's something we all have to keep working on - it's not just a coincidence of birthplace. In my, admittedly not humble, opinion.

f.

SlayerLayer

Slayer,
(Sniff, sniff} I love you, man!

You're not getting my Bud Light

Slayer

bigboi

Hey All:

I disagree with right-wing conservatism. I like the fact that they want less government in most ppl's lives. However, I don't like the fact that they seem to look down upon ppl who are not like them. Most conservatives in the upper echelon of government grew up well to do. They don't understand the struggle that it takes to succeed in this country. Most of them are of a white-christian background so they don't understand the growing religious and cultural diversity that is happening in this country. Along with this intolerance comes the tendency to look upon every conflict as a war that can include no compromise whatsoever.

Conservatives need to open their eyes and see that America cannot survive with business being given a free hand in regulating public life. That happened before when the Industrial revoulution first came to America. Conditions for workers were apalling, they paid ppl the least they could and basically reduced to their workforces to a kind of 19th century serfdom. What is needed is a balance between liberal and conservatives values in government.

ONE....

bigboi

"it ain't what ya do. it's how you do it" quote from the song "True Honeybunz" by Bahamadia

reagan_oconnor

Hiya, F.

For the record, I am proud, both of being American *and* of having white skin. I am proud of my German/Irish heritage; I am proud of my ancestors and their fight to get to this country, to find freedom for their religious beliefs (ironic, no?) and to raise their children in a better environment. That was their "accomplishment;" I am their "accomplishment" and I carry that with pride and intend to hand that pride down to my own progeny someday.

I do not feel this is silly; and no, it isn't a "religious glaze," it's called respect and appreciation. Do I think that this is the best country in the world? Abso-friggin-lutely.

You have admitted to being somewhat of a nomad, so I expect that you can't really comprehend these feelings. The same way that I cannot comprehend why there is so much nastiness and rock-throwing in the Middle East about the Gaza-Freakin'-Strip. Everyone over there is in a holier-than-thou pissing contest that I just don't get.

...be proud of being a decent person. Unfortunately, that's something we all have to keep working on...

I agree. Completely.

Bigboi wrote:

they seem to look down upon ppl who are not like them

I look down upon people who:

1. ABUSE the welfare system;
2. Refuse to pay taxes;
3. Refuse to obey the laws of this country;
4. Refuse to take responsibility for their actions;
5. Refuse to vote, then bitch and moan.

Am I a better person? No, not necessarily. But I pull my own weight, follow the rules, am civically active, and I see nothing wrong with expecting the same from everyone else. I don't believe in "more government;" rather, I think that the individual states should have more responsibility in governing themselves. Federal government can barely keep itself above water.

Reagan

I am the master of my fate/I am the captain of my soul.

Englishman

TR,

Fodeja has a point, how can you be proud of an accident of birth? Re the freedom thing, most countries insist on a "we are the free-est country in the world" propoganda, its garbage, in England we are as free as the powers that be decree, and the same is true for any country, including yours.

I only "bash" America on one issue because I am an abolitionist, other than that I have no axe to grind.

Englishman.

..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.

America Bashing

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