by minimus 81 Replies latest watchtower bible
Dear Mulan,
In my usual argumentative style when I was a teenager, I retorted with "to me it's only a disrespectful child who calls his father by his first name". She was speechless.
I agree that calling God by His first Name Only is very disrespectful, (in the org. they did it all the time - and it made me very sad! - but calling God's name with His title (GOD) is appropriate and acceptable to God.
Christian Love,
AAF
Sometimes I use "Jegoober"...
ESTEE
Some more information on the Ugaritic yw I was able to collect today in the library of the Collège de France Institute for Semitic Studies.
1. "yw" occurs only once in the Ugaritic texts, in the very lacunary text KTU 1.1 iv:14, as part of the "Baal and the sea (ym)" myth. As translated by G. Del Olmo Lete (Madrid, Cristiandad, 1981) the text MAY mean: "And the Benevolent, Ilu, the [Gracious] answered: [I will proclaim] the name of my son Yawu. The goddess [?] [his name is Beloved of Ilu]. And he called the name of Yammu (the Sea)." (N.B. What appears between brackets is just a guess for missing words.)
2. Some think in this instance the name "yw" is a scribal error, and they emend it variously (to "ym" or to "yr" for example). Or they interpret it diversely: as a variant name for Ym, as a noun meaning, for example, "beloved" (Gray), as an interjection "oh!" (Cassuto), as a verb "let there be" (Jirku). Most contemporary scholars, however, seem to accept it as a divine name, but they doubt whether or how it may correspond with Yhwh.
3. An "optimistic" interpretation can be found in N. Wyatt's Religious Texts from Ugarit (Sheffield Academic Press, 1998, p. 48): "This is probably a [Sanskrit] loan-word (<yau<dyaus) occurring in various [Near Eastern] contexts, including, perhaps, the [Divine Name] Yahweh. The apparent sense was 'lord', or even 'god', given the equation in BM 93035 ilu = yau."
4. A "pessimistic" interpretation is this of the long article Yahweh in the Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible (DDD), ed. K. Van der Toorn (Leyden, Brill, 1995), col. 1713: "Yahweh was not known in Ugarit either [the previous negative reference is Ebla]; the singular name yw (vocalisation unknown) in a damaged passage of the Baal Cycle (KTU 1.1 iv:14) cannot convincingly be interpreted as an abbreviation for Yahweh."
Yet for some reason, most Bibles do not use the name Jehovah or Yahweh but a few times. - Minimus, 29-Nov-03 18:21 GMT
The first use of Jehovah (or, Iehouah) in English was in Tyndale's translation of the Pentateuch. He used the name at Genesis 15:2; Exodus 6:3; 15:3; 17:15; 23:17; 33:19; 34:23; and Deuteronomy 3:24. At the end of Genesis he had a 'Table expounding certain words', including Jehovah of which he wrote:
Iehouah is God' name, neither is any creature so called. And it is as much to say as one that is of himself, and dependeth of nothing. Moreover as oft a thou seist LORD in great letters (except there be any error in the printing) it is in Hebrew Iehouah, thou that art or he that is.
I'm not quite sure why he only used the name in these scriptures but as the first English translation he set a precedent (of only using God's name a few times) which was imitated by most subsequent translations. He may have been influenced by Johannes Reuchlin's De arte cabalistica (Hagenau, March 1517) in which Reuchlin explained to Christian readers the mysterious meaning of the divine name. Reuchlin was the leading Hebraist of his day and Tyndale certainly made use of his Hebrew grammar - De rudimentiis hebraicis (Pforzheim, March 1506).
If Tyndale had used 'Jehovah' throughout the OT there is little doubt in my mind that subsequent translations would have followed suit. But Luther had not included God's name in his German translation and it was not in the Latin Vulgate so this may also have caused Tyndale to be cautious.
Edited to agree with peacefulpete : "No cover ups , no conspiracy, no satanic plots, just stupid tradition".
Earnest
I would think that if "Jehovah God" really wanted His Name known, He would've made sure that His Name was used throughout the centuries and got in His Bible. When He made sure the Bible got to us, He went through the Roman Catholic Church, didn't He?
I would think that if "Jehovah God" really wanted His Name known, He would've made sure that His Name was used throughout the centuries and got in His Bible.Well, that's why he had the New World Translation printed in this time of the end.
Since the Bible seems to say that God will make his name known , that is why jws say that the name Jehovah can properly be used because " is the most widely used" Since the Bible seems to say that it si God who makes his name known and since Jehovah according to the WT is the most widely known vesrions of the name, it would be kinda starnge if God allowed an inproper version of his name to be so widely known and refering to him.But according to scripture has made his name known Jws concede that no one knows the correct pronuciation of the name, so the logic is that it is not the way it is pronounced but what is important is that it is the most widely known.
Did not read the posts above mine. I never thought about it that way.. Intersting
Thanks for the research Narkissos. I do yet find it convincing that it refers to Yahweh of the Hebrews given the YW is well known as a form of the his name and given the proximity and shared culture. It seems unnecessarily rigid to deny the connection as some of the quotes you provided do. Conservative scholars like FM Cross and M.Smith seem to favor the identification with Yaw (aka yhwh,YH etc) of the Hebrews. Especially since the name Yammu(Yam) is in the same text as a separate deity(IMO the offered [***]reconstruction disregards the general description of Yammu as evil and vanquished even killed by Baal) The fact that it appears only once is not surprising as I said earlier there were about 200 deities mentioned in the texts with most appearing only once.
given the equation in BM 93035 ilu = yau."
I'm not sure why he equates the two as most see El (ilu) as the speaker and father of YAW???
I found this article that seems to offer both sides of the debate as valid. ................................................................................................................................
Among the Canaanites, neighbors and political competitors of the Hebrews, he was called simply "Lord" or Ba'al, while his true name (Hadu or, in some dialects Hadad) was known only to his priests. Ba'al's chief rival for kingship among the gods was Yamm, meaning "Sea", who also sometimes took the guise of a storm-god. His personal name was Yaw or, in some texts, Yawu. For instance, in the Epic of Ba'al, El, speaking to Athirat about their son Yamm says, "The name of my son is Yaw, Oh Goddess. . ." The name of Yamm is intriguingly similar to the name of the Hebrew deity, Yahweh, the short form of which was Yah (or YAW). The similarity of names is parallelled by a similarity of roles, since Ba'al was considered to be the chief rival of Yahweh by the Hebrews. Although this identification not a certain one, the two are thought to have been the same deity by some scholars.
Thanks for the info. Interesting.
I'm not sure what I believe about God anymore, so if and when I do feel compelled to "talk" to him, I use Father, because it seems the most respectful and intimate term without feeling too ridiculous about talking to an unknown person. I don't feel compelled too often though.....still in an agnostic state and can't seem to find anything to replace what I once felt so strongly about. Guess I'm very skeptical of all relgious ideas now.
