I attended the meeting tonight.....

by silentlambs 76 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    No, Danny, No.

    I am NOT using a parody when I state that MY children would want to know those things. Because I always impressed upon them that participation was a way to outwardly demonstrate one's devotion to Jehovah AND to support the elder giving the part, that actually WOULD have been their reaction. As would the questioning afterwards about why Brother Bowen was being shunned if he wasn't disfellowshipped?
    They would feel badly that he was being treated badly. I raised HUMANS (not a one enslaved to the Borg, thank god!) not WT-automatons! (I used to view that as a failure, but now rejoice in it!)

    The tone of your posts is VERY JUDGMENTAL, DannyBear, something that most of us here have FLED and do not miss AT ALL!

    (Seeker,
    Please note that the "reminders" given silentlambs here were not "friendly."
    outnfree)

    Perhaps people DID switch congregations "like hats, back in the late 70's", but you really can't say that Brother Bowen should have to nor should have to WANT to drive to another congregation to worship. As I said in my previous post, perhaps he WAS testing the waters. WHY do you have such a problem with that? He took the Society (local elders)'s word that he was still a member in good standing, not even reproved, and when he went to see if he would still be TREATED as a member in good standing it was the VERY sad eye-opener he related above. (Perhaps he held out a tiny spark of hope that one of his long-standing friends would demonstrate some loving-kindness?)

    Brother Bowen, in the interest of his cause (please perk up your ears here, Joelbear), has not expressed himself publicly on just how he feels about Jehovah God and his worship within the organization. He is working hard to expose what he feels is a terrible injustice wreaked on the victims of pedophilia due to a policy of the Watch Tower Society. It is this that "he wholeheartedly condemns." He wants to see the policy change so that victims are not re-victimized and fertile ground for new victims will not be found within Jehovah's organization.

    Now you and/or I may not feel that the WTBTS IS Jehovah's Organization, but that is not Brother Bowen's cause. His attendance at the meeting demonstrates that neither his cause nor his honest desire to effect a change for the better is anything of which to be ashamed. It reminds the local brothers that they have some "cleaning up" to do. It reminds all publishers in attendance that you can keep your integrity and you SHOULD keep your integrity. It should inspire all of them not to be hypocritical, and might inspire SOME of them to support Brother Bowen's cause.

    Further, I don't think a single person here questioned the legality of the brother shadowing Brother Bowen, just the propriety (or maybe the idiocy) of such an action.

    As to whether or not Brother Bowen would WANT to share "in the
    worship of Jehovah with those he knows to be sexual predators" how many of us were doing just that for years without ever knowing? So who are you to decide if he could bear to do so just one more time?

    His raising his hand to answer, his mirroring the attendant, his very presence at the KH were all absolutely FINE. They were NOT wrong actions, at all. (The burning rubber was a case of "temporary humanity" -- who among us is not guilty of having done something similar [or worse!] when feeling hurt and angry?)

    YES, our dear silentlambs has a responsibility to ALL the silentlambs.
    He has thus far fulfilled that responsibility in a wonderfully inspiring way.

    Why cannot you see that though the Society and many, many of its members will seize upon the "very, very minor" things to try to besmirch Brother Bowen's reputation, the "very, very HEINOUS" things the Society has to answer for will out, and will condemn, and there will be no hiding, and no room for the "clean, Christian, moral, united, worldwide congregation" to be excused from their utter lack of love.

    "God is love," they proclaim.
    "By this all will know YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among YOURSELVES," they proudly apply to themselves.

    The 60 or so members of Bill Bowen's congregation (and the posters on this board) may have just "seen" a small act of frustration on his part, as Venice pointed out.

    Very soon, MILLIONS will know that Jehovah's Witnesses do NOT have love among themselves, for they will not lovingly protect even the weakest, most vulnerable among them -- the silentlambs.

    There is no comparison.

    So let's give Brother Bowen the same thing we've each afforded ourselves here on this forum: a place to vent our hurts and frustrations and reveal the injustices visited upon us and others by members of the "Christian" Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Perhaps we should all stop arguing now and instead look into buying some local advertising space in support of silentlambs and his work.

    outnfree

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    SilentLambs,

    Your response to all of the above was classy. No snipits or puns no condemning. That in itself says a whole lot to me. Thanks for that response.

    Until this 'attended meeting thread' I have not participated in many of these discussions. For a couple of basic reasons.

    I believe that the issue of pedophilia within the confines of WTBS is important, requiring those aware of such to take action. Is the WTBS worse than any other religous entity, as regards this crime? No.
    Catholics, Baptists, you name it....sexual predators prowl...and overall the religous heiarchy all try to suppress the info. So for ex-jws to latch onto this ONE aspect, of the WTBS overall evil promulgated, is to minimize the whole package of SHIT they disperse.

    I really get tired of hearing from politicians and social worker's 'its all for the children'. Children are children only for a very short time. They have an inate ability to withstand tremendous traumas and physical abuse and then recover. Although they pull at your heartstrings, and they are so dependent and need protection....their plight as potential victims of pedophilia, are no where's near the damage being wrought by the 'towers' teaching on shunning ..... its effect on millions of people world wide.

    Suicides, depression, broken families, and ripple effects that go on for generations.

    Hope this helps you to understand some of my comments.

    DannyBear

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    SilentLambs,

    The bottom line: Please know that your efforts are extraordinarily appreciated by all, but especially by those who can least defend themselves. Your work is noted and applauded.

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Outnfree,

    For one who admires freedom, remember that applies to expression of idea's as well. You are taking my comments way to seriously.

    I agree overall with what you have to say. You do seem to have an inside track on Bro Bowens mindset. I applaud your fervor, but must take acception to someone telling me what another's motivations are. I think Silentlambs can speak for himself. And he has.

    So we will agree to disagree on this one Outnfree. Does not mean that we cannot still be friendly, just have different outlooks.

    Thanks for replying to me.

    Danny

  • Jang
    Jang

    Danny Bear wrote:

    The actions he took on this occassion were wrong. The Kingdom Hall is not public property, its private. If they want to follow him around the toilet or out into the parking lot, they have a legal right to do so. If they choose not to call on him for comments, they have a right to do so. That is what makes joining a cult, so damaging. They can do pretty much what they please, inside the confines of property and religous rites.

    The thing is that it is a publicly advertised meeting Danny and at publicly advertised meetings anyone is permitted to attend and take part in the meeting. If they want a closed meeting then they must take all reference of it from their Notice Boards and take ALL WELCOME of the signs too.

    They try and get away with it, but there are precepts in the law here and in other countries regarding this. that is why the Exclusive Brethren don't have any notice boards etc so that no one can get in.

    They have the same problem with their magazines and not supplying them to everyone who requests them. They advertise them for a donation and even apostates are entitled to demand theirs ..... and if they keep refusing then they are breaking consumer laws.

    JanG
    CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
    Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    Silent,

    I also appreciate the tone of your reply.

    I applaud your efforts to get victims to communicate with each other. Even if nothing happens to watchtower policy itself, this communication will lead to healing.

    I certainly also wish you peace as you continue your journey outside the witness system.

    take care

    Joel

  • Jang
    Jang

    Danny Bear wrote:

    I really get tired of hearing from politicians and social worker's 'its all for the children'.
    Children are children only for a very short time. They have an inate ability to withstand
    tremendous traumas and physical abuse and then recover. Although they pull at your
    heartstrings, and they are so dependent and need protection....their plight as potential
    victims of pedophilia, are no where's near the damage being wrought by the 'towers'
    teaching on shunning ..... its effect on millions of people world wide
    Yes, we withstand the traumas Danny, but we don't always recover so well. I was already in my 40's before I really was able to put things in perspective and recover from a lifetime of abuse.

    Then there is my daughter, raised by a broken mum, in the WTS for most of her young life, and molested by one of the brothers who had been protected by the elders. Later in life a nice therapist was able to use that and end having her believe that she has been probably abused by all her family and eventually she believed she had been satanically ritually abused as well.

    My foster daughter (been with us most of her life) is 30 now ..... and she is only just recovering from those early years of trauma and abuse. It has taken 18 years of our input of lots of TLC for her to reach this point. We can see how far she has come by the way she loves and tends her 18 month old son ..... her confidence now is amazing compared to what she was when she came to us .... but it has been a lot of input to get this far .....

    Danny, these children recover only if they are helped through it by caring, sensitive adults who make them feel empowered and well loved ..... but how often does that happen.

    Definitely not within the borg!!!!!!!!!

    JanG
    CAIC Website: http://caic.org.au/zjws.htm
    Personal Webpage: http://uq.net.au/~zzjgroen/

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Jan,

    If my memory serves me well, there is only one truly public meeting sponsored by the local KH. That is the Public Talk usually held on Sunday's. All other meetings are for the r&f, with visitors welcome to attend.

    Maybe that has changed, but I think it is still in effect.

    DannyBear

  • Mommie Dark
    Mommie Dark

    You said, "They have an inate ability to withstand tremendous traumas and physical abuse and then recover."

    I have to wonder... were you ever traumatized as a child? have you any experience at all dealing with people who were? I wonder what you consider 'recovery'. I wonder if you've ever dealt with a child who has been molested, or traumatized by violence, or any other 'trauma'.

    As a victim of childhood 'trauma' (molestation and abandonment) and the parent of a child who was traumatized (mauled by a dog), I am real familiar with the phenomena associated with recovery. It's a whole different world than any trauma experienced as an adult.

    If you're 'tired' of people advocating for children, you might want to ask yourself why you feel that way. Or maybe you are one of those clueless people who think kids are just miniature adults who should be able to 'get over it' like you apparently can?

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Mommie Dark,

    Your final sentence indicates you are not out for discussion, but for blood. So suffice to say, I do not care to converse with someone, who has already decided what I believe.

    DannyBear

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