Why trying to reason a JW out of the cult is a lost cause (and what the solution might be).

by OneEyedJoe 51 Replies latest members private

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  Fisherman

  Hello, I'm Mister Ed 
  
  A horse is a horse, of course of course, 
  and no one can talk to a horse of course, 
  that is of course, unless the horse, 
  Is the famous Mister Ed! 
  
  Go right to the source and ask the horse. 
  He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse. 
  He's always on a steady course. 
  Talk to Mister Ed.
  
  People yak-it-ti-yak a streak 
  and waste your time of day, 
  but Mister Ed will never speak, 
  unless he has something to say... 
  
  A horse is a horse, of course of course, 
  And this one will talk 'til his voice is hoarse. 
  You never heard of a talking horse? 
  Well, listen to this... 
  
  I am Mister Ed
• 

  GrreatTeacher

  Well, now you've blown your cover...
• 

  chicken little

  I spent six months in intensive therapy after being in hospital with a nervous breakdown/anxiety period...call it whatever. I learnt that we do indeed give too much power and importance to feelings. The reason being that feelings generate changes in our mind and body behaviour. A person suffering from anxiety will react differently to an ambulance with a siren and lights flashing, than a person who is not generally anxious. Feelings that come up can be extremely difficult to control. Learning to take the power away from feelings is very much part of the therapy that helps people like myself to gain mental balance.

  When I was a witness and watched tv news with earthquakes, war etc, my feelings would cause me to feel fear and apprehension which I then linked to my witness indoctrination, that this was the end of the world. The need to reassure myself that I was doing the right thing by staying a witness was re-inforced by the panic and confusion that came within me when I questioned my thinking.

  It is only now I can allow all..and I mean ALL kind of thoughts to come into my head without judging them. I let them come and go and treat them all as welcome, only then do I feel free not to get trapped into condemning my thinking, this then leading to having emotions that are not helpful. Emotions have a place but all too often we give them much too much importance. After my therapy I am a much more balanced person, so much so, that my husband and friends feel I am completely different in so many ways. I take that as a complement as I am a much happier person not controlled by my emotions.

  Very good topic and thread, thank you.

  Chicken little (who is no longer afraid)
• 

  Question_Mans_interpretation

  Excellent post, and so well written. I hung on your every word and it all makes sense and i completely agree. Definitely will have to rework my talks with my mom. I think she may have an emotional connection to world events. She is so hung up on 1914 being a pivotal year due to WW2 breaking out that year.
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  Vidiot

  Good OP.

  I compare it to having both a principled reason to leave, and a personal reason to leave...
• 

  StarTrekAngel

  Definitely has nothing to do with being smart. The Aum Shinrikuo cult was partly successful in the sarin gas attack because they had chemists in their midst. People who knew how to get the gas and transport it without killing themselves.
• 

  Heaven

  My goal in life was to never try to convince my folks to leave their religion but to live in contradiction to their claims that 'worldly' people are all evil. I live in a country where everyone has religious freedom and so I never went against that. However, I would let them know when their religious ideals were factually or logically incorrect. I can tell you they didn't like it.

  I was born the child of a 'surprise'. My Mom was not a planned addition to her family. There was 9 years difference between her and the next sibling in line and 15 years difference between my Mom and the oldest. When you are the child of a surprise child, you watch a lot of your family die.

  What I can tell you being this child of a surprise that is now 52 years old, sooner or later, old age forces everyone to leave this religion.
  
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  John Aquila

  CalebInFloroda

  I've noticed that a large number of posters here seem to think as I naturally do, in the D-K manner: sure of what they believe but open to the possibility that they might be mistaken and that someone else might have so input of value. Again and again I am pretty much amazed to find this here because it is rare in the real world.

  The so-called "ignorant," by comparison, are ignorant of their ignorance. According to D-K, the average person cannot see the brilliance in others, believing it is available only in themselves.

  Caleb, I came to this conclusion a long time ago. Posters here are not afraid of examining ideas that are forbidden. And readers of the posts are not afraid of accepting the fact that their belief system might be wrong. So besides emotion, logic, and intelligence,--- courage is an absolute must. It takes courage to accept you were wrong and change your paradigm.
  
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  Phizzy

  What an excellent O.P and Thread ! thank you One Eyed Joe !

  I think you have put your finger on the difficulty with waking up loved ones, we may know them very well indeed, but we do not know their very core. The values they hold dear above all others.

  For me it was the lies and untruth within the religion that did it, but that was because I am a lover of truth, I hate to be lied to, and I detest people who deliberately present something as true which is not.

  I tried to wake up a JW relative when I first left, showing the errors (untruths) within the JW Org's teachings, I was shocked when she said "I don't care about that".

  I now understand why, she did not love truth as I do. If we can but identify a person's emotional trigger, we have a chance to wake them up.

  Thanks again for your thoughts.
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  Vidiot

  John Aquila - "Posters here are not afraid of examining ideas that are forbidden."

  Well, that was pretty much how we ended up here in the first place, after all. :sunglasses: