Believers, why does God need your flattery?

by IronGland 51 Replies latest jw friends

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  Silverleaf

  aChristian,

  Parents may discipline their children but good parents don't kill their children even for willfully disobeying them. Nor do they punish their grandchildren and great grandchildren for the disobedience of their parents [as the Bible states - though it contradicts itself about this issue]. One would think God would have a better way to deal with errant children that did not involve thousands of years of punishment, banishment to Hell, or complete annihilation. When a parent sends their chidlren to the garden to play, a good parent also does not send the rabid Pit Bull [Satan] to play there also.

  Likewise one would expect the Word of God to be absolute, inerrant and contain no contradictions - be available and understandable to all His children, not requiring translation by imperfect humans and be unable to be misinterpreted in any way.

  JMO,

  Silverleaf
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  vanilia

  absolutely. couldnt have said it better myself. just doesnt make any sense does it?
• 

  aChristian

  Vanilia,

  You wrote, "There is no love in letting billions of people suffer sometimes in the most dreadful circumstances, for thousands of years, all because 2 people made a mistake. is that fair?"

  Christians trust God, even though we do not always fully understand all that He does. Young children usually lack the wisdom to fully understand many of their parents' actions. Because they do, at times some of their parents' actions may appear to be unloving or unjust. But that perception on the part of the young children is usually an incorrect one. Few people claim to fully understand why God has long permitted suffering to exist. But our lack of understanding does not prove that God's actions in this regard are either unloving or unjust. It is of course also possible that the events which transpired in Eden are widely misunderstood.
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  Realist

  i think its time to get over the garden eden story...its made up...based on ancient myth...neither eden nor adam or eve ever existed.
• 

  Gopher

  aChristian writes:

  Few people claim to fully understand why God has long permitted suffering to exist. But our lack of understanding does not prove that God's actions in this regard are either unloving or unjust.

  But that same God created us with a conscience and a sense of justice, in his image. Our faculties are along the same lines as his, just maybe not to the same degree.

  So if something seems unjust, why can we not raise the issue? Maybe it's not God himself that is being questioned, but the way He is portrayed in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). Speaking in a general sense, there are many questionable things about the accounts. I don't want to believe that God would be a vengeful, petty, jealous type of individual as seems to come across as written in the Bible (which after all should clarify and not obfuscate the nature of God, if it does anything!!).
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  Realist

  the god of the old testament (jahwe) is the result of a mixture of older tribal gods...thats why many of the stories in genesis are written twice...once you have a masterful god who is creating someting good (the name of this god is elohim). then you have the same story but with a vengeful and incompetent god who screws up things and who kills or puishes people (his name is jahwe --> jehovah).
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  NameWithheld

  Christians trust God, even though we do not always fully understand all that He does. ..... .... (Note the very WT like elipse to cut out irrealivent quotes ) But our lack of understanding does not prove that God's actions in this regard are either unloving or unjust.

  I have a dog. I beat it sensless everyday. Sometimes twice a day. Sometimes I feed it regular food. Sometimes no food. Sometimes I let it smell the food, then take it away. Sometimes I just go away for years and let it alone. But I love that dog. He just doesn't understand me!

  Disclaimer: BTW for the peta people out there the above is what is commonly known as a metaphor!!! In other words it is not true - I don't even own a dog.
• 

  aChristian

  Gopher,

  You wrote, "The Bible ... should clarify and not obfuscate the nature of God." That is your opinion. However, I believe the Bible itself indicates that it was most likely meant to do both. To clarify God's nature to those whose hearts are inclined toward Him and to obfuscate His nature to those whose hearts are inclined against Him.

  This seems quite likely when we remember that Jesus Christ Himself is the God of the Bible. He is not just the God of the New Testament but He was in fact also the great "I Am" of the Old Testament. (John 8:58) How does keeping this fact in mind help us to see that the Bible was most likely written to both clarify and obfuscate the nature of God? By remembering how Jesus taught. Mark tells us that whenever Jesus spoke to crowds of people which contained both His friends and His enemies, "He did not say anything to them without using a parable. But when he was alone with his own disciples he explained everything. " (Mark 4:34) Why did Jesus speak in parables? Why did He go to all the trouble of telling such often hard to understand stories to crowds which gathered to hear Him speak? Was the purpose of the parables to help all who listened to Jesus come to clearly understand the deep things of God? No, it was not. In fact often Jesus' purpose in speaking the way that He did was just the opposite. Jesus told His disciples, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that though seeing they may not see and though hearing they may not understand." (Luke 8:10, see also Mt. 13:10-15)

  Jesus understood that many of His listeners had hearts hardened against Him, and from such people, through the use of parables, He deliberately withheld "the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God." He did so by incorporating into those parables elements which He knew His enemies would find fault with or stumble over.

  Now, remember, "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." (Heb. 13:8) Is it any wonder then that God caused the Bible to be written in the same way that He, as Jesus Christ, spoke to audiences which contained both His friends and His enemies? Remember, He did so in a way that would give His enemies opportunity to find fault and His true disciples opportunity to gain "the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God." And the Bible's audience is made up of the same kinds of people who listened to Jesus' parables, is it not? And since the entire Bible was inspired by the speaker of those parables, it makes sense that the entire Bible would be written in the same way that Christ's parables were spoken. In a way that would give some the opportunity to find fault or stumble and others the opportunity to learn "the secrets of the kingdom of God."
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  Yerusalyim

  I wasn't aware that God had expressed the necesity to be adored and worship. In fact, one jewish prayer I love, the Kadish, says quite specifically that we praise and adore God even though He is above all our words and praise. You've lost me on your point here, I know of no Christian or Jew that carries the position that God needs our praise.
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  Valis

  I always like what Betrand Russell had to say about this subject...

  I observe that a very large portion of the human race does not believe in God and suffers no visible punishment in consequence. And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that he would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt his existence. (W.A.)

  Sincerely,

  District Overbeer