Snoopin' Elders! Has this happened to you?

Alligator Wisdom

That's right! Have any of you known or heard of elders snooping and rummaging thru yours or anyone else's personal belongings? Perhaps to find "evidence"?

Well.....this just happened to me!

As some of you might know from my first post (below), I am doing like a submarine and planning the "submerge".

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=39668&site=3

Being I was zealous and kept up with appearances, they have been puzzled of my slowing-down.This, no doubt, had thrown up all "RED FLAGS". The elders had been occasionally coming by to talk about my "spiritual welfare". I guess they are trying to probe and find out why I'm neglecting my service to Jehovah. Anyhow, this past Tuesday they mentioned about the kind of music I listened to and highlighted the fact that "alternative music" can be a lure of Satan. What!? (I wondered how they tied all this together). They mentioned that they noticed my CD's in my car (which I share with my wife). These two elders were with my wife and another sister in the field service while using our car. I assumed that my wife and the other sister was doing a return visit when the elders, while waiting in the car, made their discovery. Mind you, these CD's are kept in the center console and isn't visible to anyone. Since there is only room for about 5 CD's, my wife and I kept only a "sober" mix. Here is what we had in the car.

(a) Kingdom Melodies, (b & c) Classical Music, (d) Polish Folk songs ~ from my recent trip to Poland during August. And yes, no one I know here in Japan can read Polish. Besides, this CD is traditional folk music. And (e) REM.

I guess by the sound of the topic that these elders tried to pinpoint that musical group REM (and alternative music in general) was possibly the cause of my weakness. Basically, that is for my own conscience to decide and I personally don't think that REM is the type of group that will promote child abuse, satanism or violence.....etc. I'm sure that those of you who are familiar with REM will agree with me.

My gripe is "why are they sifting thru our car"? Well, when they saw the expression on my face....they stumbled with words saying that "....ur....uh....um....they just popped the center console open...ah....ya' know". To me that is like doing a search without a warrant. I'm sure that all of you have good friends that wouldn't even attempt to do such a dastardly deed like this to you. I thought these elders are supposed to be trustworthy. I thought wrong! Yes, the WT Society says that the elders are shephards, put failed to emphasize that they are also trained to be like police K-9 dogs. Our conversation was then interuppted when my father-in-law knocked on the door. The elders immediately left. This now has confirmed my lack of trust with these elders.

Has this or anything similar happened to any of you? Did you pursue it any further? I could use advice.

Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother "Not Exerting Vigorously")

detective

well, you know- REM does do that song "losing my religion".

There could be something to their concerns...

hamptonite21

This may be a good thing, now that they are embarassed it may be easier to do the fad, good luck!

SPAZnik

REM!!! REM!!!??? You baaaaaad.

I guess Elders will probe anywhere.

I would play dumb and say, "what makes you say that?" and "what do you mean exactly?" Make them state explicitly what they are accusing you of. If you just keep saying things like "what exactly do you mean by that" and/or something like "please show me where exactly that is forbidden in the bible" it will force them to exercise more caution in harrassing you. I'd probably ignore 'em, but If I wuz gonna ask them anything about it, I'd sure as hell make them admit to where they got there "information" from and also why they are saying that.

SPAZ

Jourles

That's funny. In my wife's car I keep a few of my personal CD's in her CD holder. Right now, I know for sure that there are two Metallica discs, one Rage Against The Machine, and one from The Doors. Now mind you, she uses her car for service about once a week and she usually drives on the day she goes out. I always rotate a few discs in and out of her car, but for the most part, the type of music and groups that I listen to are not ones that a circuit overseer would carry in his Buick. Her CD holder is the type that velcros around the visor so that all of the CD's are lined up with about a quarter of each of the discs showing. AND it is on the passenger side - easily viewed by anyone sitting there. I know that there has been a couple of elders that have ridden in her car in service and the chances of one of these elders sitting in the front passenger seat is quite likely. And I'm sure that any good ol' boy elder worth his salt in the org would have snooped through the CD's to see what we listen to.

Lucky me, no elder has asked me about MY music. But then again, I am so "spiritually weak" in their eyes that they must already understand that what I listen to is contributing to my weakness.

Prisca

I can understand your anger at the invasion of your privacy. If the elders ever bring up this subject again, you shuld make sure that it is impressed upon them that you don't appreciate them snooping around your car, and that you have been "stumbled" by them doing this. Make them feel guilty for what they have done. They are sneaks and cowards, IMO.

Joyzabel

Yep, good ol' theocratic warfare!!!

Now you are being labled "weak". Isn't it amazing how we always get labeled something! (hint, it's a ~~cult~~, opps, mind control group) It's hard doing the fade thing because they are constantly watching. The freedom you receive is worth it. Now go get some GOOD CDs

j2bf

alfie

Thanks for the warning. Now I'll know to hide my John Denver and Don Ho tapes.

alfie

blondie

Actually, AW, I was told by several elders that this is a tactic they use on "shepherding" calls.

Scenario:

Older elder: Now when we visit try and see what videos and CDs they have.

New elder: Wouldn't that be rude?

Older elder: No, we are showing concern for the sheep. It is important to look for symptoms of spiritual illness. R-rated (or worse) movies and heavy metal and rap music would indicate a serious weakness.

New elder: I'll watch how you do it then.

At the home of the spiritually "weak" one

Older elder to weak one: Nice home, oh is that new (pointing to a big screen TV)?

Weak one: Yes (hesitantly). Why do you ask? Are you thinking of getting one?

OE: Oh no. My wife and I are too busy in the ministry to watch much TV. We wouldn't even have a TV if we didn't need to watch the news and weather every day.

(OE is gazing around trying to see where the CDs and videos are stored and sees a locked cabinet.)

What's in that locked cabinet? It must be pretty valuable.

Weak One: Oh that's where we keep our videos and CDs.

OE: Oh, are they that valuable you keep them locked up?

Weak One starting to get exasperated: No, it is just that our children are young and we don't want them getting into them and using them for playthings and damaging them.

OE: Oh (with a knowing sound in his voice)

Weak One: Well, my wife is not feeling well. Another time would be better. Could you call next time and make an appointment?

OE and NE leave and get into the car.

OE to NE: See, I knew something was going on. Why would a good Christian have to lock up their videos and CDs? I'm sure his wife isn't sick. She has been saying that for a long time but she doesn't look sick.

Six months later at the sister's funeral:

NE to OE: I guess she really was sick. (OE gives him a sour look as he goes up to the husband to tell him how sorry he is)

Pathofthorns

I'd laugh if you had Rage Against the Machine's "killing in the name of" playing in the background and you said with a straight face "I really don't think my choice of music is a contributing factor to my spiritual weakness".. lol

They can be so clueless sometimes. Maybe pull out a copy of COC and say "Maybe this has something to do with my problem?"

Path

Snoopin' Elders! Has this happened to you?

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