Bill Bowen's Comments on Ray Franz

by silentlambs 181 Replies latest jw friends

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Venice,

    IF you were raped by a JW or had a child that was molested by a JW TODAY!!! Say this happend today and you had a choice between calling Ray or Bill, who would you call to help you????

    It's time to stop being children about this.

    I would call the police!!!!!!!! It is not the purview of either man. Ray Franz is a private individual, Bill Bowen is full blown parade!

    Bill's efforts while commendable have little chance of bringing changes. The Watchtower will not allow apostates to dictate to them! In fact, he may even be hindering the progress of change. There are still some in positions of authority in the Watchtower that know changes in the abuse policy and other policies must be made. Bill's full blown parade is impeding their efforts.

    IW

  • VeniceIT
    VeniceIT

    Your telling me not to be childish, ohh that's Rich!

    Bill's efforts while commendable have little chance of bringing changes. The Watchtower will not allow apostates to dictate to them! In fact, he may even be hindering the progress of change. There are still some in positions of authority in the Watchtower that know changes in the abuse policy and other policies must be made. Bill's full blown parade is impeding their efforts.

    Silentlambs HAS ALREADY effected policy. Letters have been read and information has been given to elders stating that they can no longer say one way or the other about JW's going to the poilice. That IS a change in policy!!!

    Also back when my father was still PO and City Overseer of our hometown a current elder and subsitute CO told dad that Many changes in doctrine and policy over the years have been a direct result of apostates, and the information that they have presented. My Father was appalled at this at the time.

    And you know what maybe it Takes a parade to get things done, to accolmplish anything I for one was in the most recent Silentlambs 'parade' or march and am so glad I was able to be there.

    --------------------------------------------------

    Another point you and Many on here have stated is that you don't see Silentlambs accomplishing anything, or that you think it's a joke.

    Then maybe you should go over and see the Silentlambs website, read the guestbook, listen to the recordings that hundreds of victims have left on the wt abuse hotline. I know of several victims that have been helped by the Silentlambs movement and have started to heal, to heal after some 40 years of agony, pain, suffering and victimization. One lady who has become a friend of ours is an entirely diff person since the March last month. She is a strong and beutiful woman, no more frightend little child, hurt, alone and suffering.

    Over 5,000 victims of abuse have contacted Silentlambs in the past year and a half. They now know they're not alone, they weren't the only ones this has happened to. We come to this site JWD because we're so glad we're not alone in simply seeing that org is not what we thought it was and many of us have suffered depression and anguish due to this, and have not even had to deal with something as horrific as abuse. But look at the help they have ALREADY recieved.

    Look at Erica Garza who can now be free, and know that her molester is behind bars, and can not hurt anymore children. Look at the hundreds of lawsuits accros the nation that very infulentual laywers and firms have taken on to put these vile criminals behind bars.

    ALL OF THIS HAS BEEN MADE POSSIBLE by Silentlambs. To say nothing of the publicity they have accomplised with CNN, Dateline, Panorama (and 4 programs like that worldwide) articles in the NY Times, Christianity today and countless other papers accross the US, Canada and beyond.

    Even if Silentlambs was to do NOTHING else further, they've already acomplished more then was EVER thought possible. Has helped Thousands of victims, and many JW's to see the truth about the truth.

    Even if SL's had only helped one victim to gain some kind of peace and comfort it would have been successful.

    Sl's is the greatest thing that has happend for victims, jw's and exjw's ever.

    It's success so far has been monumental and it's only just started!!!!!!!!

    Ven

    (edited to get rid of a bunch of extra space at the bottom of the post)

    Edited by - VeniceIT on 28 October 2002 16:9:59

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Venice,

    Silentlambs HAS ALREADY effected policy. Letters have been read and information has been given to elders stating that they can no longer say one way or the other about JW's going to the poilice. That IS a change in policy!!!

    No, that is not a change in policy. That is a clarification. There have always been elders who refrained from telling people what their legal rights were, one way or the other.

    A "change in policy" is a change in the two witness rule! The GB are just as stubborn, just as bull headed as Bill Bowen is! They will not change this policy just because some former elder from Kentucky has, in their view, a "burr up his ass".

    The two witness rule stands and as long as it stands Bill Bowen has been ineffectual.

    IW

  • bluesapphire
    bluesapphire

    I am so glad Bill wrote these comments which shed light on his actions. I think they were long overdue. Some of us don't know the details behind the scenes. It helps when we can understand both sides' perspective.

    For whatever it's worth, I think Bill's assessment that Ray Franz is NOT a supporter of silentlambs is accurate now that I know what really transpired. All he had to do was stay silent to the media. That's it. Stay silent. For whatever reason he chose to reiterate the position held by the lying Watchtower Society's scumball representative J.R. Brown. The good thing is that the media looked at the evidence and went forward.

  • VeniceIT
    VeniceIT

    Good lord did you even read my post????

    Bill Bowen has already acomplished much more then anyone else in this matter, a lot more then you or I have.

    JW's being able to call the police now IS A policy change even if the previous one was unwritten. AND in saying this now JW's can go to the police if they want, and they don't need two witness to do that, so at least this is a GIANT step in the right direction.

    Your being unreasonable in saying that unless the 2 witness policy is comepletely deystroyed NOTHING has been accomplished, because so much already has.

    Now JW's can go to the police is thier child claims to be molested. The 2 witness policy is now affecting whether judical action can take place, not legal from the police. This is a Definate CHANGE in policy that was brought about by Silentlambs.

    Ven

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Venice,

    JW's being able to call the police now IS A policy change even if the previous one was unwritten. AND in saying this now JW's can go to the police if they want, and they don't need two witness to do that, so at least this is a GIANT step in the right direction.

    The mind control of not bringing shame on the congregation, of trust in the GB, of trust in the elders etc., will for the most part nullify any "silence" on the part of any elders as to whether the police should be informed or not.

    JWs are trained to honor Jehovah's name, that name is connected with his people, the Org., the congregation. I and most of the witnesses I knew, did not need an elder to tell us that the congregation's dirty laundry was to stay in the congregation. They did not have to, we were already well programmed by the Watchtower.

    There was no working change, only a semantic one.

    IW

  • waiting
    waiting

    Been reading a lot - thought I'd throw my opinion in............like pages of them, eh?

    Thanks, Bill, for the explanation. Some good points to ponder. Franz has a long history in the org........waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before being on the GB. Decades before. I remember shuddering when Maximus stated the high double digit (or triple digit) number of jw molesters he knew about because of being a CO/DO in decades of work. Yet Franz never knew of any molesters during all those decades. And those men are contemporaries - in the same work, with completely different case histories of the same types of jw's.

    I think the forming of a forum for victims is great. LadyLee is giving it a shot - perhaps with all the furor over your comments - publicity will help your site? I'd like to visit there. Hope it goes well.

    It is funny. Bboy's place says this place is the death of freespeech (paraphrasing). Bill contends there's not enough moderation. Damned if you do - damned if you don't.

    Perhaps this place does what it does best........an introduction into the discussion of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Peace to all good people.

    waiting

  • Simon
    Simon
    Damned if you do - damned if you don't.

    I'm going to have that put on by gravestone (any day now probably)

    "Here Lies Simon. Damned"

  • VeniceIT
    VeniceIT

    So what the hell do you want??? you said you wanted a policy change, and I showed you one, now you say you want to change the JW mind control, as do I but that is a diff subject. First things first.

    The WTS will have to cruble for that to happen on a global scale. Perhaps this is a step.

    The parking ticket policy changed due to one little article in a newpaper summer of 2000 and in Jan of 2001 a threatening letter to Service dept about an ongoing investigation was sent

    ONE MONTH LATER a letter was sent to all Body of Elders that they were no longer to charge for parking!!!!

    That right there is a POLICY CHANGE that came about due to an APOSTATE!!!!

    Ven

    (edited to add excelt points Waiting)

    Edited by - VeniceIT on 28 October 2002 17:4:23

  • waiting
    waiting

    Why, thank you, Venice. And my good damned Simon

    Personally? I don't see the WT crumbling........I see them going mainstream and continuing to shrink. They will just be "those odd people knocking on the doors" or standing on corners, or looking tacky in the malls.

    But they will change - and have already changed. One generation ago? No college. Now......much more freedom. Apostate pressure is bringing change. The Old Warriors started this revolution - thanks to them.

    Hopefully we can continue it without strangling each other? (joke for the humor impaired)

    waiting

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