Why I Think Its The Truth!

by normie67 56 Replies latest jw friends

  • expatbrit
    expatbrit

    Normie:

    JW's fixating on the spurious name Jehovah proves only that they think God's name is Jehovah.

    It's a circular argument: we think God's name is Jehovah, therefore, since only we use that name to a great extent, we must be the true religion.

    Someone could start a religion based on God's name being Ronald McDonald, and offer as a proof of that religion the fact that only they use God's real name.

    Muslims have just as much conviction that God's name is Allah. Is theirs therefore the only true religion because only they use that name?

    You base your belief upon the Bible, but that is another circular argument: God's word the Bible says God's name is YHWH, so therefore it must be. How do we know that the Bible is God's word? Because the Bible says so.

    All other reasons given for proving the Bible in fact do nothing of the kind. As an example, the wide circulation of the Bible proves merely the historical dominance of European culture, not the divine inspiration of the Bible. Other so-called proofs can be similarly explained in a rational manner.

    Your personal convictions prove nothing.

    Expatbrit.

  • Tina
    Tina

    Hiexpat,
    If 10 million burgers have been sold,they MUST have the truth (laffin) wink,T

  • dreamer
    dreamer

    I have had similar discussions on the validity of the bible being the 'true' God's word.

    I have to say that the evidence so far has been totally unsatisfactory:

    - Contains fulfulled prophecies
    - The most widely distributed book
    - It says it is .... "All scripture is inspired of God" 2Ti 4:13

    Fullfilled prophecies (no matter how debatable!) could come from a whole manner of sources. Why does it have to be the 'true' creator of the universe?

    As for widely distributed, I think expatbrit could well have a valid point.

    The argument that 'it says it is' a big problem. First of all, what was the 'scripture' which Paul was referring to. Is it not possible that he was talking about the old testament prophetic writings (Isaiah, Jeremiah etc)? The application to the entire biblical canon as we see it today seems a little far-fetched.

    I am not saying the people who believe the bible is the word of God are wrong, it just seems that there are other possibilities, or even middle-ground truths.

    Maybe I am missing something (faith?). I just can't reconcile the arguments put forward to me.

  • kes152
    kes152

    My dear sister/brother Normie,

    I totally understand why you believe that the JWs is the "truth," For I too had the same understanding. I am however permitted to share somethings with you that are straight from the Bible and I wish to hopefully get your feedback on it, ok?

    First, the "preaching work" .....

    When the Master gave instructions on how they should go out to preach the kingdom of God, he told them to heal the sick, raise the dead, etc. But also notice He said

    "And in that same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the laborer is worthy of his hire. Go NOT from house to house." (Luke 10:7)

    Jesus himself did not go "house to house," rather he went "city to city" and "village to village" and only spoke to people in the public places, the market, and their synagogues (a.k.a. "false churches"). The only time the Master approached a home was when he was invited, either by a Pharisee, Zacchaeus, his beloved Lazarus, etc. He was always "invited" to a home, he didn't already "show up on their door step preaching." People who 'got the sense of it' wanted to hear the Master in their own homes and invite all their friends over to hear the 'truth.'

    When Paul said he spoke "from house to house" the actual word was "according to house." And the same occured with Paul, he was invited into many homes. Thus, he taught in many homes because ones would beg him to stay with them after they heard him teach in the temples and in the public squares.

    The second and MOST important that I was directed to share with you is the 'means' by which we can recieve "life." For such "life" is important if you plan to "live forever," yes?

    Please, get a NWT reference Bible or any NWT that has cross references in the middle of the pages and read John 6:48-58. At first glance you will see nothing wrong, but notice John 6:53 which our Master is reported to have said:

    "Jesus therefore said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, ye have NO life in yourselves."

    May I ask you, what is the flesh and blood of the Son of Man? Before you answer, look at the N.W.T. cross references for "flesh" and "blood" and they WILL take you to Matt. 26:26-28, and 1 Cor. 11:24,25.

    Now, read those verses in the NWT. The Master says there "Take eat, THIS IS my body (his flesh)." Now I know you KNOW what is taking place in those verses.

    So now I ask you, since Jesus is the Word of God, is not he the one who could best explain what he meant? With that in mind, What DID Jesus say was HIS FLESH and BLOOD? Was it not the bread and the wine?

    Now look again at John 6:53. "Unless ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, ye have not life in yourselves."

    So what REALLY happens when you DON'T "eat the bread and drink the wine?"

    He said:

    "He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:54)

    Tell me, do you want to have "everlasting life?"

    "I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if ANYONE eats of this bread, he WILL LIVE FOREVER: yea and the bread which I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world." (John 6:51)

    Do you want to "live forever?" Do you want to help those to whom you 'minister,' live forever?

    Did you notice the word "anyone" in Jesus' words?

    We can talk about "eating and drinking judgement" later since that is an EASY topic.

    In essence, Jesus set down what He himself called "spiritual food" and it was nothing more than the "bread and wine," not meetings in a 'kingdom hall' or 'convention.' just the 'bread and wine' is the spiritual food that "Jehovah" gave to us to eat so that we don't die. It is the "true food and true drink." (John 6:55)

    the problem lies with the fact that even tho the NWT bible says otherwise, the WTBTS hinders people from partaking of this food from God. Thus they literally prevent people from recieving "life" IN THEMSELVES. Is this not what the scribes and Pharisees did?

    thus my Lord said:

    "You SHUT UP the kingdom of God before men, YOU yourselves do NOT go in, and ANYONE on their way in YOU HINDERED." (Matt. 23:13)

    just so you know, I belong to no religion, I too was a JW. They got angry with me when I partook in the org. and professed to be of the 'anointed.' Now, I solely belong to Christ and obey his voice. Everything I was permitted to share with you I recieved from holy spirit and the same free gift is available to you. You can be able to "hear" the Son of God speak to you too through the "free gift" of holy spirit that is available to "anyone asking, anyone thirsting, anyone seeking." This way you can hear it directly from him and not need me. :)

    Hope to hear from you soon

    May you have peace,
    Aaron

  • normie67
    normie67

    kes152
    normie is a bro,by the way......
    what about life forever on earth as Gods original Purpose???

    expatbrit...sorry fixated on Gods name!!! I am an nobody else is fixated on the PROPER pronunciation....whether its YHWH, Yahweh, or JEHOVAH its important to know it!!! The rendition of the Hebrew Tetragrammaton of YHWH in English is widely known as Jehovah....so much Praise and Glory to Jehovah and his Son Jesus Christ our Redeemer and Saviour!!!!!

    normie (Of the Fixated on the most Holy Name Jehovah Class) wink wink Farkel

  • Scorpion
    Scorpion

    normie,

    Interestingly, even (knowledgable) JWs realize that the name Jehovah is improper. The book, "Let Your Name Be Sanctified" freely admits on page 16 and 18 that Yahweh is the superior translation fo the Tetragrammaton. This book has been withdrawn as most WT publications usually are. However, in the preface of "The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures," we find on page 23 the following admission:

    "While inclining to view the pronounciation 'Yahweh' as the more correct way, we have retained the form 'Jehovah' because of people's familiarity with it since the 14th century. Morever, it preserves equally with other forms, the four letters of the Tetragrammaton JHVH."

  • Scorpion
    Scorpion

    normie,

    Just a side thought. Being Yahweh is the more proper pronunciation, why use a name for God that is less than proper?

    True worshipers of God cannot let tradition lead them to call the Heavenly Father by the wrong name. The WT is steeped in it's own traditions just as the Catholic church is.

  • thinker
    thinker

    Normie,
    I believe Scorpion is right. Your reply got me interested, so I did a search on "Jehovah" and found many interesting info. You might want to try it if you're really interested in the name. Go to yahoo or any other search engine and type in "Jehovah" (not JW) and see what comes up.
    You seem to have sidestepped my main point, however. My question is: "You say you know about the WT's past. How can you teach things that you doubt, in an organization which you really don't believe in?"
    As for my thoughts on the bible, I've posted it elsewhere on the forum; so I won't bore you all with it here.(thinker's thoughts on the bible)

  • kes152
    kes152

    My brother Normie,

    Living forever on the earth changes nothing about "eating the flesh and drinking the blood" of our Lord. For if you wish to "live for ever" ANYWHERE, can you do it without "life" in yourself?

    Jehovah provivded a Way, by which we can have "life" in ourselves SO THAT we can 'live forever.'

    Are you willing to eat the "true food" and drink the "true drink" from heaven so that you CAN "live forever?"

    For is there not one "Way" by which we can live forever? Is it not only through the Christ? And if so... then what DID the Christ "say" we must do to live forever?

    "I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if ANYONE eats of this bread, he WILL LIVE FOREVER: yea and the bread which I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world."
    (John 6:51)

    May you have peace on April 8th,
    Aaron

    Edited by - kes152 on 25 March 2001 11:38:40

  • kes152
    kes152

    Hello again Normie,

    The 'spirit' inside of me HAS to respond to what you stated about how important it is to "herald" the kingdom of God.

    I TOTALLY agree with you that we MUST preach the kingdom. But, may I ask you, "what is the good news?"

    Is the 'good news' the SAME 'good news' that Jesus AND his disciples preached?

    Before you answer, dear brother, take this into consideration:

    Paul said,

    "But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Gal. 1:8)

    Tell me, was not the "good news" that ones can recieve holy spirit, the free gift, and also hope of everlasting life in heaven? Was not "heaven" THE good news?

    How is it then that you preach a "different" good news that you can live forever (which is correct) but ONLY ON EARTH! (which is incorrect).

    You remember how Christ is "heir of all things?" Well that means as "heir" he "inherited" the earth. Otherwise it would not be "all things," yes? Now, you remember there are "joint-heirs."

    So "joint-heirs" would inherit all things as well. So wouldn't those who are "joint-heirs" with Christ "heirs of the EARTH" and hence "inherit the earth" just as their Lord did? Since "all authority has been given me in heaven and ON EARTH." Could the "joint heirs" be the "righteous who inherit the earth?"

    Things that make you go "hmmm......."

    Peace to you,
    Aaron

    Edited by - kes152 on 25 March 2001 11:41:30

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