6of9
Sorry, I belivet the Bibleis Inspired...............
normie
Why I Think Its The Truth!
by normie67 56 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
Scorpion
Hello Normie,
The Mormon church holds to the same claim you mention about the preaching work. The problem is that they as well as the Watchtower violate. Galatians 1:8-9 which says:
"However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed. As we have said above, I also now again, Whoever it is that is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed." (NWT)
Without going into the false statements, doctrines as well as all the false prophecies of the LDS faith, I will stick to the teachings of the JWs being this forum is for that.
Did the apostle Paul teach the disciples in Galatia that Christ would return in 1914 and set up a visible organization with headquarters in Brooklyn, New York?
When Jehovah's Witnesses preach their "gospel" or "good news" of the kingdom, they are actually preaching the doctrine of Christ's invisible return in 1914. They freely admit the good news preached by Christians down through the centuries is not the same as what Jehovah's Witnesses preach.
...the Kingdom witnessing of Jehovah's Witnesses since 1914 has been far different from what Christendom's missionaries have published both before and since 1914. "Different"-how so?...What Jehovah's Witnesses have preached world wide since 1918 is something unique...the preaching of this good news of the Messianic kingdom as having been established in the heavens in 1914...(The WT 10/1/80 pages 28-29
Of course with all what was said about the generation of 1914 not passing away before the end coming, I see an absense of mentioning the 1914 date today. Does this mean the good news of the WT will once again change as it so conveniently does when proven false, and how many will still strive for that rotten carrot dangling in front of them? And how many will continue to preach a different good news other than that of Christ?
Edited by - Scorpion on 18 March 2001 18:1:19
-
SixofNine
normie, that is not good enough my friend. You will have to do better than that.
Honestly, who the hell cares what you believe? I'm serious now; in the big scheme of things, what the hell does it matter what normie67 believes? We care about the REASON for your belief, because then we can REASON on your belief for ourselves (a concept quite foriegn to the WTBS). If your reasons are that everyone, especially your parents, allways told you that the bible is inspired of God, tell us that. If your reason is that the Bible says it is the inspired word of God, tell us that. Obviously, that won't cut it for thinking people, but if that is the reason for your words on this db, tell us. You owe it to us. Frankly, you owe it to yourself to struggle with articulating the reasons for your belief.
So, the question is WHY do you think it is inspired. A huge number of humanity thinks the quran is inspired.
For that matter, I was once inspired to write a poem to a girl I loved. That kind of inspiration doesn't come about for me every day, and it could certainly be said that God had a hand in it. Do you think that God inspired Bible writers in that sense? ie. "I feel so good about, and feel so in love with Jehovah, and the things others have taught me about Him, and I just know He wants our people to do this, this and this, that I am going to write this all down!" Or is it God putting words in their minds with direct, clear, lucid instructions for them to write it down and inform everyone that the messege is from God?
Start at the begining.
-
normie67
6of9
Honestly notinterested in a debate about the validityof the Bible.(oopps sorry spelling)My post is genuine and I think merits consideration. I don't think attacks on thevalidity ofthe Bible are warranted...
No Offense 6of9
normie -
logical
Normie
See that wall? That hard brick wall?
Hit you head against it. Repeatedly. Fun isnt it?
Thats the equivalent, unfortunately, of trying to get a spiritual discussion going on here.
-
AlanF
Normie,
Your ideas have problems on several counts.
First, Jehovah's Witnesses in no sense preach the same "good news of the Kingdom" that early Christians did. Their notion is the thoroughly disproven one that Christ began reigning as king in heaven in 1914. They claim this only because of their "gentile times" chronology which claims that a magic period of 2,520 years began in 607 B.C.E. and ended in 1914, when Christ was enthroned. This notion has been disproved on several counts: Jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 B.C.E. but in 587/6 B.C.E.; there is no evidence that any such "times of the gentiles" period is anything more than the product of the fertile imaginations of certain 19th-century Bible expositors, which the founder of the Watchtower Society picked up; there is no evidence that anything like a "composite sign" as taught by JWs began precisely in 1914; the entire basis for the 1914 prediction that Christ would begin ruling in heaven was taught until between about 1925 and 1943 to apply to 1874. I could list a lot more evidence but it would just be beating a dead horse. If Christ's kingdom is not based on falsehood, then it is evident that JWs are not preaching about a real Kingdom ruled by Christ -- they're preaching about an imaginary kingdom. Thus, all their preaching is in vain.
In practice preaching of Jehovah's Witnesses accomplishes very little and is extremely inefficient. A substantially larger number of people become JWs by being born into the religion, or by casual contact with JWs, than by any formal house to house preaching campaign. This is becoming more and more the case, as people "out there" just don't want to listen to anyone, including JWs, who show up at their doorsteps. About five years ago the statistics were something along the lines of there being about 3,000 hours in field service for every person baptized. But keep in mind that perhaps 2 out of three baptized are not the product of formal preaching, but of casual contact or being raised a JW. So in practice it takes about 9,000 hours of formal preaching to get one convert, whereas it takes far less by informal methods. That's inefficiency!
And how about car groups? Typically a car group will consist of four people who go out by two's and do "not at homes" for an hour or two. They drive around and about 4-5 times an hour two people get out and confirm that the person is still "not at home". Now that's inefficiency.
Does any of this sound like what Jesus or the apostles did? Not to me.
And finally we have the stereotypical JW myth that only JWs do any kind of preaching work. Tell that to a typical Evangelical Christian and they'll laugh in your face. They may not engage in a formal style preaching work, and they may not turn in time or conduct "home Bible studies" or do all sorts of other things on a formal basis, but they sure do think they're doing a lot of preaching! Same thing with Mormons, Moonies and lots of other Christian denominations.
Really, Normie, all you're doing is repeating myths you've been taught by the Society. Go out and get in touch with some of these other groups and see for yourself if your claims are correct. You'll find what I said to be true.
Of course, when you confirm it, you can't turn around and say, "Oh! Well! Only JWs are teaching people the truth!" That's so for two reasons: (1) Without proving that everything JWs teach is the truth, you can't make that claim (and of course, it's already disproved by the 1914 problem and many others); (2) All religions teach a mixture of truth and falsehood, so how does one pick out just one as THE One True Religion?
AlanF
-
SixofNine
Logical, in another thread I posed the question, "should you believe in the Bible?".
Your answer was, "yes".
Not exactly deep spiritual discussion was it? I can't help but think maybe you do not have a solid, logical reason for saying "yes".
Honestly Normie, I'm not looking for debate, I'm looking for answers. My questions are valid, and Jehovahs Witnesses have never even considered them. Have you? You should, and you know you should. Just like every human that is affected by the Bible should. Lets be honest, that topic has always been off limits, both in our own minds (ie. are we being unfaithful by even having that thought?) and in the context of our religion (ie. the question has been completely ignored).
Asking a reason for the hope you have, is not exactly unreasonable is it?
-
happytobefree
Normie,
It is not true that JW's are the ONLY people evangelising. I have been trying to visit different churches and religions to find out for myself what they believe. And I have found out that other Christian groups are very active in their preaching. My husband and I have just received a 2hour visit from a local minister of a baptist church and he ended the discussion with setting up another bible discussion (a return visit, lol). I don't believe that the bible is inspired and I'm not interested in becoming a christian, but I do want to throughly investigate his beliefs. He is aware of my beliefs, and I have found him to be very knowledgeable of the Bible (alot more than the most studious JW), and open to discussion about my views. And I have learned from him and also from talking to other christians (non-JW), that they don' knock on doors, but they witness all the time. I feel their evanglism is better, being they are not required to keep track of their preaching activity and I feel they are doing it because they BELIEVE and NOT because it is REQUIRED. And also remember if you just add the number of christians (non-JW) and even their number of foreign ministries, it would make the JW 6 million look like peanuts.
Before you make blanket statements about others, please talk to them first. If you go by what the WTBS have told you, then you are in the dark. So you statment of JW's the only people doing a preaching work, it VERY UNTRUE.
Happy to be Free (Me)
P.S. And just a side note - My beliefs about JW's is that they don't have a belief (personally) - they only belief what the WTBS tell them to. So do you really carry on evangelism. or should it be called Watchtowerism
-
normie67
I don't mean happenstances by a local pastor...I mean a Global Preaching Work about Gods Kingdom!!!
Serious evangelizing about Jesus Ransom Sacrifice!!!sorry normie
normie(of what the Hell Class!!) -
Seeker
No disrespect intended, Norm, but you don't really seem to want to discuss your topic very much. You tend to give glib, short responses to long arguments. And I don't see you saying anything about what AlanF brought out. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts about his reasons why what JWs preach is not the same sort of thing Jesus did.
As for the idea that only JWs preach the kingdom (which isn't true of course, since other religions do this as well), I would only ask you this: If you were to ask 100 householders what JWs teach, how many would say, "They preach about God's kingdom"? Probably none. Most people have no clue what Witnesses believe, other than that they don't take blood, or that they push the Watchtower magazine. Why is that? When Jesus preached, it was to talk about the kingdom in a very direct manner. When JWs preach, they talk about whatever the cover of the Awake happens to be, and householders never have a clue that they are preaching about the kingdom.
How can this possibly be compared to what Jesus did?