THE DILEMMA FACING APOSTATES

by You Know 134 Replies latest watchtower bible  Original

  • somebody
    somebody

    What has the GB to show as credentials?
    LOTS.

    LOL

  • You Know
    You Know

    ONE

    As usual you make statements that you then are no willing to prove. You answered my question above with empty words.

    What do you mean "as usual"? Usually I answer in considerable detail, but, given what I put up with on this board, I think I am entitled to indulge in a bit opf sport and mockery on occasion.

    So you think silentlambs and Barbara did not confront the WT?

    I would say that they did. But, that's not really analogous to Nathan's confrontation with David. For, one thing Jehovah spoke with Nathan and told him how to handle it.

    Or will Jah use you as HIS spokman this time???

    No. The Scriptures are pretty plain that God will use Christ to judge his people.

    After the confrontation, which you think has not happened, will make then (GB) repent...they must for the parrallet to be true.

    According to Christ when the judgment occurs some of his anointed ones will be cast out as evil and sluggish slaves and the rest will be chastised and forgiven. It will come down to an individual case-by-case judgment.

    As as i mentioned to you before your post are too long. Many here dont have the time wich you seem to hava available.

    That's pretty funny. Half the time I am accused of being too long winded and the other half I am accused of not answering in enough detail. You people are a trip man, as the hippies used to say. / You Know

  • Crazy151drinker
    Crazy151drinker

    APOSTATE, n. A leech who, having penetrated the shell of a turtle only to find that the creature has long been dead, deems it expedient to form a new attachment to a fresh turtle.

    This proves that YOU KNOW is an Apostate :)

  • one
    one

    : Jehovah spoke with Nathan and told him how to handle it

    ok but according to wt theology and yourselft Jah does not talk anymore, HE "directs". And do you know who HE is "directing" (not the GB i suppose) Did HE informed you? how?

    : The Scriptures are pretty plain that God will use Christ to judge his people.

    What about to Christ's brother/sisters on earth?

    I thought they were taking care of his/their business... you are one of them. What have you produced?

    what is their/your job?

    Following your theory/theology then why shun, DF and call apostate to anyone now,? wait for HIM, labeling people as aposates etc is going ahead of Chirst, let him decide....

    : It will come down to an individual case-by-case judgment.

    ok, What about Russell, Rutherford, Knor, F Franz, the other GB who died in Hawaii the one who joined the UN/WT etc etc.

    Rewarded without judgment? They created this mess.

  • one
    one

    one more time

    what are YOURS/GB/ANNOINTED credetnials?

    PLEASE brief

  • winsome
    winsome

    YK,

    The WT has served God's purpose in that they have performed sort of like John the Baptizer, in that they have introduced us to Jehovah God and his Messiah, Jesus Christ, with the urgent call to repent. They have acquainted us with the vital issues confronting us regarding God's sovereignty and his determination to rid the earth of wickedness, as well as alerting us to the numerous spiritual dangers that Satan's world presents to our faith.

    In other words, they've accomplished some good over the years, just as many religions of our day can make the same claim. But, I'll agree they have accomplished some good in their existence.

    The paradox is, though, that because we have a strong tendency to follow humans, that the Watchtower has apparently, inadvertently, overshot the mark, in that the Watchtower itself has become a religion and has replaced Jehovah God and Christ in the hearts and minds of many. So, I believe that the final test that will come upon Jehovah's Witnesses will be the decoupling of our faith from the Watchtower organization. That will be a traumatic affair for sure.

    Many religions on earth have done this too. Its called Idolatry!

    To better appreciate this phenomenon of Jehovah's judgments, which the Bible plainly says are high up out of reach for many, we might liken the Watchtower to the Mosaic system that Paul said served as a tutor leading the faithful to Christ. The stumbling block for many Jews, though, was that they couldn't separate themselves from their attachment to Judaism when Christ fianlly arrived and Jehovah abadoned the Jewish system. That, my friend, was the paradox, in that the very thing that served as their reliable guide could also be their undoing if they placed undue importance upon it. So, while the Watchtower has similarly served as a tutor, the Watchtower is not the end of our faith. At some point, obviously, the Watchtower will have served its purpose and will be discarded by Jehovah. But the very fact that many of Jehovah's Witnesses have a demonstrable, genuine, child-like faith in God and Christ is evidence that the Wt's tutorship has considerable value.

    Absolutely wrong.

    Anointed christians of the first century had the holy spirit as their "tutor", the same as the presumed anointed among JWs today are suppose to have. But as you show above so eloquently, in actuality JWs do not demonstrate any evidence at all of possessing or having this powerful force in their lives. They show in fact, the opposite. They show by their many foolish blunders that they clearly DO NOT have the true "leadings of the spirit" as a spiritual homing device, the spiritual "compass" within them. The current activities of JWs give clear evidence that they DO NOT have God's powerful "reproductive seed" implanted within them, to guide them safely and progressively in christian growth. The past 125-year history of the JW Organization unequivocally proves that. (Romans 8:14-16; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 John 3:9)

    Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

    (See detailed information posted by myself on this subject where the critical fallacy of your argument is revealed.) http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=25225&site=3

    Therefore, what you propose above is impossible. Here's why.

    In short, whenever the truly spirit "anointed" of God of the first century, would get off track of his christian course at any time, God's spirit, which "bears witness with their spirit", immediately acts as an "umbilical cord" tie-in with God and the individual, to let them know exactly how God feels about their questionable conduct. The special "tie-in" with God stays with the "anointed" till their death. (Romans 8:14-16; Ephesians 1:13, 14) This being the case then, there is no way possible for the truly "spirit-anointed" to get confused or innocently misled away from the path of righteousness, as you have suggested above. This is because God's "spirit" is placed within each genuinely "anointed" person as a "reproductive seed" that positively KEEPS HIM ON TRACK! As God's Word says, the spiritual "son" of God then, properly "cannot practice sin" at all. He does not "practice sin" because God's spirit "leads" him, continually. (1 John 3:9)

    Therefore, with the spirit "leading them" as anointed "sons", it would be impossible for them to pursue a course of sin and wrongdoing (as we've seen practiced by the WTS and company) over a prolonged period time, and NOT COME TO KNOW IT. God's powerful Holy Spirit would unquestionably, LET THEM KNOW! God's active holy spirit and its powerful operation upon the "anointed" son would without a doubt, make such a disturbing course known to the Governing Body and all presumed "anointed" among JWs earthwide. God's spirit would let them know that this particular course they were pursuing, was completely displeasing to Himself and Jesus Christ, who is the head of the christian congregation. God's spirit would act, so that they must stop this conduct, before His anger rages against them as lawless ones. So, the truly "spirit-begotten" would have it made known to them by God Himself, individually and as a group, any conduct or action that was displeasing to God and Christ. (Case in point, the abusive treatment toward the "Silentlambs" movement and the strong hand methods of disfellowshiping to "stem the tide" and effectively silence the "whistle-blowers" who expose "the hidden" wicked pedophile situation among the JW organization earthwide. -- Luke 8:17) The "anointed" christian would know, by way of the "spirit", God's holy spirit, that God was thoroughly displeased. (Romans 8:14-16; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 John 3:9)

    The Bible shows when the truly "anointed" get off track, this spiritual "tie-in" of the holy spirit, immediately begins to be "grieved", and to such an extent, that they would know immediately something is wrong and "out of order" with God and that definite action must be taken to remedy the situation. If they did not heed the "witness of the spirit" in such critical cases, they would run the risk of "blaspheming" God's spirit by a prolonged "practice of sin WITH KNOWLEDGE". Complete disaster! He would lose his "heavenly hope" because he has not remained "pure" in God's eyes, just as "that One is pure". Therefore, the truly "anointed" must then always follow the "leadings of the spirit", as true sons of God till their death to gain Jehovah's and Jesus' approval. (Ephesian 4:30; Hebrews 6:4-8; 10:26-31)

    "And you have an anointing from the holy one; all of you have knowledge...And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but, as the anointing from him is teaching you about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in union with him." (1 John 2:20, 27)

    "And everyone who has this hope set upon him purifies himself just as that one is pure...Everyone who has been born from God does not carry on sin, because His [reproductive] seed remains in such one, and he cannot practice sin, because he has been born from God." ( 1 John 3:3, 9)

    winsome

    Edited by - winsome on 24 July 2002 16:0:13

    Edited by - winsome on 24 July 2002 17:2:10

  • simwitness
    simwitness
    Re: THE DILEMMA FACING APOSTATES Jul 23, 2002 12:56 Edit reply Reply to post IP AddressDelete this reply


    You Know...

    Simiwitness.
    I was wondering how long it would take for you to start the name calling and personal attacks..

    I haven't called you any names nor have I attacked you personally.

    What do you call this?

    Are you so illiterate that you cannot supply the verses for yourself?

    In my estimation, that is a personal attack, attempting to discredit me in the face of others. (I do not care to discuss this specific issue further, as it serves no real pourpose).

    Now, onto this comment:

    The dictionary definiton of faith is irrelevant. I cited the Bible's definition of faith. That's what we are talking about, right, using the Bible? Or are you unaware of what Hebrews 11:1 says?

    Are you actually serious here? Let's look at the NIV translation of Hebrews 11:1.

    Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see

    and the NWT:

    Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.

    Not sure there is a real difference between the two Bible definitions, and certainly no real difference than the one I offered from websters. "evident demonstration of realities not beheld" is not, of itself, evidence of them.

    Secondly, you said "demonstratble reality of things not beheld" which is very different than the "evident demonstration of realties not beheld". You simply cannot demonstrate things that are not seen. (Don't use the wind, since you can physically feel the wind, you are in essence, seeing it, or atleast "beholding" it).

    Evidence is a noun, a thing, while "evident" is an adjective used to describe that thing. (or are you so illiterate you need to take basic English again?? )

    However, having faith that something is so, does not make it so.

    I was going to discuss the Luke 21:8 bit further, but I believe that has already been discussed at length on this board, If you want to discuss that further, please let me know.

  • You Know
    You Know

    SIMIWITNESS

    In my estimation, that is a personal attack, attempting to discredit me in the face of others. (I do not care to discuss this specific issue further, as it serves no real pourpose).

    It was arhetorical question similar to Jesus asking, 'have you never read.'

    Not sure there is a real difference between the two Bible definitions, and certainly no real difference than the one I offered from websters. "evident demonstration of realities not beheld" is not, of itself, evidence of them.

    Seeing what cannot be seen is evidence of them. But, for a faihtless person who cannot see the unseen, the evidence seen by others is not enough for the them, obviously.

    However, having faith that something is so, does not make it so.

    That's not true. Moses was credited by God for having seen the invisible with his faith. Again, from the standpoint of the one with faith seeing the invisible and acting accordingly is in itself evidence of the power of unseen realities. / You Know

  • aurel
    aurel

    Dear 'you know',

    Do you imply that the change to a pure language is promised after the 'great tribulation' or after Armageddon?

    I have more questions after you reply to this one. Thanks, Aurel.

  • wednesday
    wednesday

    YK,

    i have tried to read through your inital post-so u are saying Jehovah will judge His own people, as He did in Iseral case.Can u show me the WTS says this-in their own publications.? I have been jw all my life and Never heard this.

  • dubla
    dubla

    i think yk has discarded his old threads....realizing now how foolish they were.

    aa

  • Crazy151drinker
    Crazy151drinker

    He is probably at AREA 51 looking for Aliens......

  • frankiespeakin
  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    What you apostates don't realize is that comparisons built on Jehovah's wisdom apply. He is the supreme creator, and by extension, the Watchtower is a creator of sorts. Jesus said as much when he stated "do unto others". The dictionary defines "others" as "Being the remaining one of two or more". Here we can see a clear distinction between the "other sheep" and those Jehovah has chosen to lead his people. Logically then, the only reasonable way to look at this dilemma is to understand it holistically. Jehovah sure has no limit to his power,and therefore the faithful slave by extension is given a sneak preview of things to come.

  • drew sagan

Topic Summary

the dilemma facing apostate jehovahs witnesses, or apostate dubs, as i have dubbed them, (no pun intended) is the very fact of their seeming success.

one of the great ironies of the apostate movement, that presumptuously boasts of "know the truth about the truth," is that apostates themselves are bound by the watchtower's own interpretive shortcomings, and hence are massively ignorant of jehovahs judicial decisions regarding his organization.

in that the presumption in operation is that if enough scandal and error can be brought to light regarding the governing body, the watchtower society's teachings, as well as individual jehovah's witnesses, then that somehow means that jehovah's witnesses have no connection with jehovah god.

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