Dacke: OK, so then why when Bill Bowen phoned Brooklyn about a molestation case was he told to "wait on Jehovah, he'll bring it out"? What would you call that? Your insensitivity is quite appalling.
JW protecting molesters on purpuse? Panorama!
by Dacke 36 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse
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berten
>How many are disfellowshipped from JW's because of adultery every year?
>...
>Which other organisation uphold such standards?
>And this is biblical standard we're talking about.
>But they wish to hide and protect CHILD MOLESTERS? Yeah, right.Aren't you shooting yourself in the foot with this argument?
There is simply no comparison:Adultery is between *consenting* adults.
Besides this world is not very much impressed with cases of adultery,
while child abuse is a completely different matter.
It's quite shameful,no doubt,to have to admit that they have the same problems
as the Catholics and other religious groups when it comes to child abuse.Like he said:
>BILL BOWEN (JEHOVAH'S WITNESS ELDER 1984-2000): They do not want people to know
>that they have this problem,and by covering it up they just hurt one person.
>By letting it out, then they hurt the image of the church. -
Dacke
The point is: There are strong arguments that JW do NOT wish to hide or protect child molesters.
- They disfellowship for offences that many consider much less evil, but that according to Jehovah are unacceptable (adultery).
- They keep records of offences and these are passed on to wherever the offender goes, although the information stays with the elders. This is in accord with international law on private information. If they wished to protect molesters, they would never create these records, and they would never use them to monitor child molesters.
Perhaps the elders should be more aggressive as in handing in all single allegations to the police immediately. But then again, any false accusations would result in serious problems as well. You might create a "cry wolf" scenario, as, unfortunately, it does happen that children lie even about such things, or are manipulated by others to imply things they don't understand.
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berten
>The point is:...
The point is that there are strong arguments that your boreganization
was more (Still is) concerned with their own image towards this
so-called "evil" world,than with the children in their JW-community.
The point is also that you steadfastly refuse to put the rose-coloured
glasses off,and do not want to see the boreganization for what it really is. -
SYN
Dacke, you're dodging the issue. What do you think of the Society telling Bill Bowen to "wait on Jehovah, he'll bring it out" during his molestation expose'? Did you think that was a good way to deal with a child molester? And don't forget, these are the words that were told both to Bill Bowen and to the mother of the two daughters who were abused on Panorama, so this is very far from some "isolated occurance". It can be stated confidently that if the Legal Desk told Bill Bowen that, then they've given that same advice to many other Elders phoning in, too! So how do you defend that?
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Dacke
//SYN
"You're doging the issue."
Well my hope is that not all who read my posts will agree with you on that but see the other side of the coin.
On Panorama's web site there's a testimony from a woman who was abused and who's story is very different.
"these are the words that were told both to Bill Bowen and to the mother of the two daughters who were abused on Panorama, so this is very far from some "isolated occurance."
Who said that that advice was an isolated occurrance? I didn't. So why are you arguing against that? On the conversation between Bowen & the Legal Desk, from which you conclude all molestation cases, no matter what the proof, are considered as best dealt with by waiting for Jehovah, see my contemplative piece below.
"OK, so then why when Bill Bowen phoned Brooklyn about a molestation case was he told to "wait on Jehovah, he'll bring it out"?"
Well what was the legal desk told? For all we know, Bowen could have gone, "I've got a young girl in the congo who's come to me & accused a brother of sexual abuse. What should I do?"
In fact, here's my take on how the conversation went. Obviously, nobody can know until we get to hear the whole tape - and hopefully it hasn't been tampered with. Everybody seems to assume the worst, so I'll throw the ball the other way as usual. In fact, I FIND IT VERY SUSPICIOUS THAT BOWEN RECORDED THE CONVERSATION. HE MAY WELL HAVE PREPARED HIMSELF TO TRY TO GET A CERTAIN RESPONSE FROM THE BROTHER AT THE LEGAL DESK.
Bowen: "I've got a young girl in the congo who's come to me & accused a brother of molesting her. What should I do?"
Legal Desk: "First of all, be very nice to the girl and don't reproach her, see what you can do to make sure she gets support and comfort. Is there any evidence to the allegation? Have you reason to suspect it could be true? Have there been any other reports concerning this brother?"
Bowen: "Not really. He's a commendable brother. What should I do?"
Legal Desk: "Have you spoken to the brother?"
Bowen: "No...I'm not sure how to approach this. It's quite a shock."
Legal Desk: "Well, ask him, you know, 'Is there anything to this?' And if he says "No", walk away from it. No proof, no witnesses...don't get yourself in a jam."
Bowen: "I'm very worried about this..."
Legal Desk: "Don't worry, brother, it'll work out eventually. Wait for Jehovah. He'll bring it out."
[The last comment meaning: "If it's true that the brother did molest the child, evidence will hopefully" (but can you say 'hopefully' without sounding blasphemous? Like Jehovah would let it through the fingers) "emerge." He's trying to COMFORT Bowen. NOT: "Jehovah will come sailing down on a cloud and tell everybody what happened (but we both know he won't, and that's much better for us, the WTBTS, he he he)."]
I stand accused of dodging and side-stepping. I don't see you guys taking in my arguments and saying, "You've got a point there, Dacke, didn't think of that." So how about you guys commenting on these:
1. "Cry wolf" (the difficulty of handling single allegations, JW case or not).
2. "The database indicates that JW aren't hiding suspected pedophiles on purpose." (Don't bother bringing up the indications that they DO here - they aren't relevant to this specific argument. I'm not pretending the other indications aren't there, I have commented on them, I just think there is more to it.)
3. "The number of disfellowshipped brothers every year show that JW are very concerned with moral standards, indicating that it is unlikely that they would wish to hide & protect paedophiles."
4. "The number of disfellowshipped elders every year show that immoral conduct of elders is viewed as unacceptable, indicating that JW would have no wish to keep child molesting elders."
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Pepper
>>> Bowen: "I've got a young girl in the congo who's come to me & accused a brother of molesting her. What should I do?"
Legal Desk: "First of all, be very nice to the girl and don't reproach her, see what you can do to make sure she gets support and comfort. Is there any evidence to the allegation? Have you reason to suspect it could be true? Have there been any other reports concerning this brother?"<<<
In all reseason the first thing to do, is contact the legal authoritys who are trainned in such matters, I went through this with my own daughter, and the elders insisted to my daughters ages 11 and 18 that they should not speak to anyone concernig the abuse not even me. As I was going through a divorce at the time and apart from my kids on a daily basis, may they all be damed to hell. Pepper