PEDOPHILES are to WTS as flies are to honey?

by Focus 173 Replies latest watchtower child-abuse

Focus

Tina wrote:
I found your key points both relevant and correct.
Thank you. You were right to so do.
This starts by leaving off the excusogetics,getting in touch with humanity,,,,something I have yet to see from Friends postings on the matter. (and not the 'lip service' I do see)
Indeed. Many think "Friend" (what an ironic choice of handle!) is a Bethel plant. He usually comes across as reasonable, conciliatory, ever-ready to admit detailed WTS failings, even dishonesty (but SOMEHOW Watchtowerinanity still remains the truth to him). Even allowing for the mental illness, that simply does NOT stack up.
He is certainly talking through the side of his mouth (see his cross-bearing at the top of this page!) - but may well be working with the blessings of Mother. And I ain't paranoid. Mamma well knows that hard-liners get slaughtered.
With the F iend Class around, the need for anonymity for those fighting Satan's Organization (viz. the WTS) is all the greater. I am asking PB to trace his Usenet post(s) - let us see what we uncover.
--
Focus
(Anon-E-Muss Class)
Friend

To all
I do not understand all the fuss made of my participation on this thread. I am not defending the Society. I am not denying that the Society has acted inappropriately. I am not denying that people have been hurt as a result, in fact I know they have and I hate it! And, though I enjoy my association with the diversity of people found among Jehovah’s Witnesses I do not feel they are unique in terms of possibly having God’s approval. My only purpose in visiting this thread stems from a desire to point out flaws in sweeping statements regarding various criticisms of the Society.
Criticism is fine and good! But when criticizing the savvy it becomes more important to be precise, otherwise needless and diversionary maneuvering room results. I know that, to many, that sounds as though I am being legalistic or technical, but that is not the case. I am trying to instill precision into otherwise valid claims. The problem with leaving maneuvering room in criticism is that savvy retortists will use it to divert as much attention as possible from the main issue. The Society has a lot of savvy retortists! I don’t like that fact anymore than anyone else, but I work to stem their predictable behavior, and any self-respecting critic of the Society should do the same!
As for what amounts to ad hominem regarding my use of English, those fools making an issue of it forget that we live in a world with many languages and dialects. Perhaps they feel mastery of English because it is the only language they can communicate in and so they foolishly make the most of that at other people’s expense. Speaking for all those who work hard at communicating in what is not their native tongue (particularly the English), all the snidery only makes you grammar attackers look more foolish. I suggest that these persons should get a life or else get out of the way by stopping with the same sort of diversionary tactics that they detest in the Society! I believe most of you people would bite a feeding hand!
As for Focus’ initial and broad assertions regarding the individual Witness and the Society, in relation to reporting serious criminal behavior the assertions were far too broad and thereby made incorrect. As a summary of the w73 11/15 703-4 Questions from Readers, Focus’ categorical assertion was:
A JW must not involve judicial authorities against a fellow-JW - if the matter is serious enough, and the JW is unrepentant, he/she will be disfellowshiped and then one will not be taking a "Christian" to court if one proceeds. But a JW must not act until the disfellowshiping happens, as the above article makes clear.
In relation to a serious criminal act (what this thread is about!), it is not a categorically true statement that “A JW must not involve judicial authorities against a fellow-JW.
In relation to a serious criminal act, it is not a categorically true statement that “a JW must not [involve authorities] until the disfellowshiping happens.” (Emphasis added)
On at least those two counts, Focus, your assertions are just plain wrong if for no other reason than they are too broad!
This thread is about child abuse suffered among Jehovah’s Witnesses and perpetrators of it. As I said earlier, it is true that there are tendencies within the community of JWs that lean toward discouraging JWs from reporting child abuse. But that tendency is not to the extent that “A JW must not involve judicial authorities against a fellow-JW.” Saying that “A JW must not involve judicial authorities against a fellow-JW” makes the question one of policy, which is why my initial question to Focus was in relation to Society policy. In turn, Focus’ answer to my question refuted Focus’ initial assertion, which was the point—to show where precision was lacking to the determent of a claim.
As for remedying any tendencies within the community of JWs that lean toward discouraging JWs from reporting child abuse, as I stated earlier, since elders are told not to interfere with reporting and since the publications encourage reporting of serious criminal actions, then the most glaring flaw is in how elders are trained, specifically that they are not trained to explicitly encourage reporting when a serious crime is made known to them. Instead they simply leave the matter to publishers to report (or not) as they see fit. That needs changing! At the very least elders should be trained to encourage victims (or their family) to report what is perceived as serious criminal behavior. Sexual abuse of a child is certainly an example of such a crime!
Friend
Edited by - Friend on 6 March 2001 10:54:45
Focus

Friend opined a few minutes ago:
I do not understand all the fuss made of my participation on this thread.
Strange that so many others seem to have no trouble in understanding this...
I am not defending the Society.
"Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears!
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.
The evil that men do lives after them,
The good is oft interred with their bones;
So let it be with Caesar. The noble Brutus
Hath told you Caesar was ambitious;
If it were so, it was a grievous fault,
And grievously hath Caesar answer'd it.
Here, under leave of Brutus and the rest -
For Brutus is an honorable man;
So are they all, all honorable men"
and so Mark Antony proceeded to defend and praise Caesar and slander Brutus.
Friend, you are SO transparent!
I am not denying that the Society has acted inappropriately. I am not denying that people have been hurt as a result, in fact I know they have and I hate it! And, though I enjoy my association with the diversity of people found among Jehovah’s Witnesses I do not even feel that they are unique in terms of possibly having God’s approval.
From which your FRAUD is obvious. As you have never claimed it is loved ones and fear of shunning that keeps you within the Scarlet Beast, believing what you do WHY ARE YOU STILL A JW? Lying to them, or lying to us, or both, eh? LOL!
"come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you" (2 Corinthians 6:17)
My only purpose in visiting this thread stems from a desire to point out flaws in sweeping statements regarding various criticisms of the Society.
As every worthy apologist sez.
But when criticizing the savvy you it becomes more important to be precise
Wow! Just a day ago I was stupid and with poor powers of reading comprehension, according to you. So, what prompted this change of view? Were you wrong then, or now, or both, eh? Again?
I know that, to many, that sounds as though I am being legalistic or technical, but that is not the case.
The above is an example of "PROOF BY ASSERTION". That means "I say it is true, so it is true."
I am trying to instill precision
The Society has a lot of savvy retortists!
True indeed! And you number among them. Special Order of Full Time Servants, one concluded.
As for what amounts to ad hominem regarding my use of English, those fools [.. many other direct insults snipped]
You are just toorich for words - LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! Do check up what an "ad hominem" is when you accuse other "fools" of using them... check up on "hypocrite" as well whilst you are doing it.
most of you people would bite a feeding hand
Oh, how much like Mother you sounded there! You slipped again. And if it is your hand, I counsel more than biting it - I counsel slicing it right off. I have your number, "Friend".
As for Focus’ initial and broad assertions .. the assertions were far too broad
Quite funny, that. Does it take practice to get that good? Further example of Proof by Assertion. . Also, repetition.
[sundry blather about "categorically true statements" snipped - quite irrelevant. It is PERCEPTION that counts, and PERCEPTION in the mind of a poor raped child at that: the mindset that One does not do anything to bring reproach on God's name prevails.
Focus’ answer refuted Focus’ initial assertion
A lie. I have utterly refuted this claim by Friend above in my posts of Mar 5, 2001 6:12:55PM and Mar 6, 2001 6:17:23AM (to which, naturally enough, this fellow makes no reference whatsoever). Instead of addressing my reply, this Intellectual GANGSTER simply repeats his (false) assertion!
Here, it is truly revealing to note the difference in the way he and I address replying to the arguments of others.
I systematically - and following their sequence - respond to the material presented by the other side, quoting it (often copiously) and not omitting anything inconvenient to myself.
This shyster OMITS 90% .. EVEN WHOLE POSTS where it suits him! Just like his Foul Spiritual Mother, the Great Whore of Babylon, a False Prophet and an Antichrist, he tries to set the agenda, confuse those listening, derail the debate and so on, while pontificating about his so-noble motives... He hopes you, dear reader, will have forgotten that these points have already been addressed, dealt with fully and decided upon...
The same tricks taught at TMS, in km etc. Why does he need to do it, one might ask. That's an easy one!
And with Friend it is not a case of old habits dying hard.. this is the life that he lives NOW.
to show where precision was lacking
That loud trumpet of your own that you are blowing so feverishly is cracked - no walls are going to collapse as a result!
elders are told not to interfere with reporting
Oh, yeah? In the thread entitled "A New Nail in "FRIEND"'s COFFIN ;-)" (obviously I did not title the thread clearly enough - you must have missed it) I have demonstrated using numerous quotes from SIX Letters to Bodies of Elders that, if anything, the weasel-worded advice is precisely the opposite: it is "SSSSSSHHHHHHH".
and since the publications encourage reporting of serious criminal actions
Where? You quoted just one measly publication, relating to the rape of an ADULT by a NON-JW. I asked you this before, and you ignored me.
This fraudster "F iend" is a real joke.
elders .. simply leave the matter to publishers to report (or not) as they see fit
No, it is worse than you claim. Strange, isn't it, F iend, that you missed the "A New Nail in "FRIEND"'s COFFIN ;-)" thread, where I quoted weasel-worded material (strictly for elders) that suggests the policy's been much closer to "SSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHH!", eh?
Perhaps your browser has developed a fault? Many debating with me seem to get this problem! Here, try clicking this:
>> http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=3088&site=3
and read.
[other pious, self-serving material snipped]
Listen here, we aren't fooled. Go back to Mother's filthy paps, and desist from contaminating us with your Vomit. Clear enough? Oh, I got the wording of that from Mother too.
"COME OUT OF HER!!" And progress toward rehabilitation. Come, I can help you.
--
Focus
(DISGUSTED Class)
Edited by - Focus on 6 March 2001 11:16:35
SixofNine

then the most glaring flaw is in how elders are trained, specifically that they are not trained to explicitly encourage reporting when a serious crime is made known to them. Instead they simply leave the matter to publishers to report (or not) as they see fit. That needs changing!
Actually, it is very simple. Ask good men/women, to do good to their fellowman. Don't confuse those good men by saying that we speak for God, so listen intently to what we say (thereby not having time or inclination to listen closely to the words of Jesus, or even to your own inate morality). Ask those good men to take extreme care to DO THE RIGHT THING in EVERY SITUATION.
Big change. Easy change. 99% of problems solved. JW organization dries up. Never happen.
Saying that “A JW must not involve judicial authorities against a fellow-JW” makes the question one of policy
,???? Focus says "must not" therefore he is speaking in terms of official WT policy? You must not reason that way.
Perhaps it all comes down to this; saying "PEDOPHILES are to WTS as flies are to honey?" is a just a tad bit extreme (though it was worded as a question). But really, if you do not appreciate hyperbole in making important points, you must not choose a religion with Christ as its foundation. (not that any JW could be accused of that, lol)
Edited by - SixofNine on 6 March 2001 10:50:30
Focus

SixofNine, you are being too kind to "Friend". While picking up on most of them, you are missing some of his many attempts to damage-limit and fire-control. As with the "they simply leave the matter to publishers" claim above, which was pretty effectively countered by material from the "secret" communications to elders that I presented several days ago in the Coffin thread. Friend obviously read them, but ignored them. Again we ask, What is the motive of such a one?
F iend had written:
Saying that “A JW must not involve judicial authorities against a fellow-JW” makes the question one of policy
And YOU very CORRECTLY countered on Mar 6, 2001 10:54:06AM with:
Focus says "must not" therefore he is speaking in terms of official WT policy? You must not reason that way.
Exactly. Of course we know why """"Friend"""" has to reason that way, don't we?
But he can't help the JW mindset. He is one of Jehovah's Witnesses, and his business is being an informed apologist. Of course, "not-for-prophet" work!
choose a religion with Christ as its foundation. (not that any JW could be accused of that, lol)
That one went sailing over his head too... In the Greatest Man book, on the cover, see how much bigger the font size for the word "MAN" is than for any other word, including "Jesus"
"PEDOPHILES are to WTS as flies are to honey?" is a just a tad bit extreme
I do not think it is that extreme - provocatively worded, for sure. The WTS was, purposely or otherwise (no implication re intentthere) set up AND allowed to run in such a way that would encourage those with pedophilic tendencies to believe they were more likely to get away with it within "God's Organization" than they would be outside it. Such a condition may well attract pedophiles to the WTS - it certainly will "bring forth" those already inside. And I have provided a mountain of evidence in this thread and in the "Coffin" one to support this contention.
Or no. Let us experience bipolarity and produce an alternative universe, Schrodinger, cat and all:
There, there, Friend. We are only pretending. In reality, we are all fooled by your deceitful snipping, misrepresentations, fraud, intellectual dishonesty, damage-limitation, selective blindness, true motives etc. And that's the truth!
NB: Watchtower definition used for the italicized text immediately above.
--
Focus
(LOL! Class)
Edited by - Focus on 6 March 2001 13:6:42
JT

TINA SAYS:
At the end of the day the issue boils down to the powerless(victims) and the powerful(elders,org.men)
######
you have summed it up very nicely , while Friend's Legal/Technical positions would and does work very well in the courtroom.
sorta like Clinton "What is "IS"---- What is "SEX" legal jargon
in the real lives of JW who live in total fear of WHAT THEY CAN AND CAN'T DO it is amazing
when you consider the types of questions that the Service Desk and the Writing Dept recieves from persons who have been JW for 10-40 yrs they still show they have developed no ablity whatsoever to make a decsions without cking to see if THE SOCIETY APPROVES IT
and that really is the bottom line
where we constantly see grown men and women who must ask is it OK FOR ME TO FART NOW
they are totally dependent on the org for each breathe they take
as Ray wrote in his book the org has over the years developed literally volumes and volumes of RULES AND POLICIES.
I RECALL giving a talk in which the point was made in the outline that the Pharisees had taken something like one law "not to work on the sabbath" and they had increased it to like 17 additional rules/policies/procedures
all manmade of course and that is the way wt does all the time
the most interesting dept at bethel in my view is the Service Dept
where rules/policies/procedures are created and enforced with the Penlty of Death almost
all manmade of course , but presented to the rank and file and esp the elders as FOOD FROM GOD himself
and of course we all know how food from god is to be viewed
so while Friend plays around with legal/technical arguments
most of use here fully understand that it is due to such a mindset as his is why the WT is in the trouble it is in right now
At one time i use to Pride myself on the same ability of quoting page and paragraph like friend does-
but i begin to clearly see that for a religion that operates like a Corporation something is seriously wrong
when the Home Office of a large corporation decides to shutdown a plant in Littletown, Miss- the guy in accounting who put the numbers together to show that we can make more money by moving to Mexico does not see faces, the children, the community, the school , the Jr socker team, etc that will be affected by this
all he knows is it will increase the value of the stock
while being a business man i understand the need at time to make hard decsions,
but i have seen to many decsions made with little thought to how folks lives will be affect- if a choice has to be made between you and the company- you lose-
now that may be ok for a corporation, but when a religion operates on the same rules that is sad
allow me to share with you a personal exp-
there was an older bro an elder who was like a father to me when i was in bethel , he lived up in The Bronx. this guy had went to jail back in the late60's/early 70's for not going overseas to the war.
well a few yrs ago i got a call from him in tears- he had just gotten his LATEST FOOD FROM GOD it dealt with Alterantive Service
here the wt stated that the reason these guys like him went to jail was due to them having "VERY STRICT CONSCIENCES" where in fact "SOME" bro felt there was nothing unscriptural about working at the hopital instead of going to war-
and that is What we call in the Black commuity "A BlackA$$ Lie"
he explained to me that when he got his draft letter him and his mama went to the elders to see what he should do.
and they directed him straight to the bound vols which clearly stated that any real spiritual mature man would go to jail and take it like a man- so since the co was coming soon the elders told him them would ask the co to see if there was any new info on the matter
the co came and call the Service dept and asked ANY NEW LIGHT
and co was directed to the same bound vols
so they told him he could not take the hospital job and if he did he would be deleted as a MS and considered no longer a jw- yes he would be shafted is what they told him
so he like 1000's of other young men went off to prison cause to do otherwise would have been to go against the VERY WILL OF GOD HIMSELF..
I was told by a number of persons who should know that while he was in prison he was repeatedly raped as a young man- now i have never asked him about it and i never will, but the persons who told me they should know-
he can out of prison as a felon- it was very hard to get work- mainly due to it was viewed as so unpatriotic by many folks
so he got shafted again when it came to employment opportunities
and now to be told that the reason you went to jail was because YOUR CONSCIENCE WAS TOO STRICT, YOU MUST BE JOKING
yet when these clowns voted on this matter they saw no face, wife, child, mother or father all they saw was we need to make sure the org is looking good and smelling good
he just broke down and cried and he just kept saying
THAT WAS NOT HOW IT WAS, THAT WAS NOT HOW IT WAS-
today he is no longer an elder rarely attends meeting and is a emotionally BROKEN MAN
so when i see guys like Friend come up here on this board and others and try to paint an Intellectual/technical/legal picture I TRULY FEEL SORRY FOR HIM
being that 99% of us here are either jw or xjw we all know the type of MINDSETS that are found thruout this organization
jw operate on both WRITTEN AND UNWRITTEN RULES and for someone to paint a picture otherwise is simply to being dishonest WITH THEMSELVES
AND THAT IS SO SAD
i have seen some JW come here and say "The GB's and the bro at bethel go thru much PAIN in the decisions that they make"
to that i laugh-
it they really felt for the rank and file they would be honest and tell them
NO WE DON'T SPEAK FOR GOD like we have convinced you that we do and have you jumping thru all these hoops that we have setup for you
just my 2
JT
JT

6 of 9 says
Don't confuse those good men by saying that we speak for God
************
and this is the VERY CORE OF ALL OF WT PROBLEMS
they have presented themselves tothier members and the entire world as being something that WE ALL KNOW THEY ARE NOT
yes the "KING HAS NO CLOTHES ON AND LITTLE SHORT WILLY WILLY TO BOOT"
SMILE
****************
Perhaps it all comes down to this; saying "PEDOPHILES are to WTS as flies are to honey?" is a just a tad bit extreme (though it was worded as a question). But really, if you do not appreciate hyperbole in making important points,
********
YOU HAVE SO WELL summed it up into a nice NUTSHELL
but years and years of WT training esp of bethelites and guys on the road has literally conditioned them to talk and speak and think in DOUBLE THINK /DOUBLE SPEAK
WHEN HAVE guy in Special full-time service ( never paid a light bill
, rent note, etc in the last 25-50 yrs due to being cared for by others one loses his ability to feel and think about the pain of other folks
even myself - i was at bethel for less than 10yrs and it was a constant struggle to keep yourself from viewing it as WELL I DESERVE THISa i gave up homes, jobs, kids to be here at bethel or on the road
so i deserve whatever i get so after yrs of strugggling many of the old timers just give in-
i recall sitting at the table of Bro Cheick- i'm not sure about the spelling but he is Max Larson right hand man in the factory up on the top floor of the 117 adams buildiing he was like 2nd in command at the time Richard wheelock( the dude who commited sucide)3rd
at any rate- all the bethel boys know who is -
they had went out for the weekend for a talk at some special assembly day
so at breakfast everyone was asking how was your weekend
and then his wife starting GOING OFF- AFTER HIS talk she told us that ONLY ONE LITTLE OLD SISTER HAD GIVEN THEM $5.00 no one else put any money in thier pockets( now for all of you who don't know how it works - as a bethelite you can clean up pretty nicely with those GREEN HANDSHAKES we use to call it)
and she kept on going on and on "can you believe it" she kept saying over and over- i felt sorry for her husband - he was so embarrassed
(but then again i said to myself- "sister your husband is a dead speaker"
my point is this i could clearly see that for some they have shifted into a MODE OF we deserve this mindset
SO WHEN YOU have this type of mindset held by a number of movers and shakers at bethel--is it any wonder then-
John Williams and my old roomate both told me NEVER BITE THE HAND THE FEEDS YOU
how sad
JT
JT

Focus, Focus
calm down my man b4 your blow a head gasket
your anger is fully understood, but to be honest about it Friend is just as much a victim as the rest of us
it is all a matter of DEGREES
anyone who has connections with wt is being sold a bill of goods
since i have been on the net i havew seen lots of bro just like Friend- try to explain/play in the pig pen without getting any MUD on them
regardless of what he says we all know that he got mud on his shoes
when you finally reaches the point were we are trust me on this one
he will be one of the Most Damaging guys wt has seen in yrs
consider the mere fact that he is even here
to me any jw who is willing to disregard MoMMY like this- is already on his way out of the org and the funny thing is he don't even know it
SO DON'T worry THE mere fact that as a JW he would even dialog is actually saying alot in my book
considering that if he is caught his A$$ is Grass- you know as well as the rest of us he would be Forced as a Grown man to say "i'M SORRY BROTHERS FOR BEING IN THAT FORUM"
think about it - here we have a dude 50-60-70 or maybe even older and he lives in fear- he is never free to say to a group of folks
"WEll yes i surf the net all the sites even ones that discuss the org"
instead he must carefully speak only around those who will not "Turn" him in
so at least commend the dude for having the guts to even be here
you know that in the avg congo of 120 pub you could not get 2 folks to discuss at length and depth any of the conversations that take place on forums like this , and why THEY LIVE IN FEAR
so look on the bright side each post he reads is one more piece of the puzzle that you and i and others are helping to put together for this bro- he like most jw only speak and think what they are told
and if you do that for long time it's hard to change
consider he has been a JW for what 20-50yrs - 5 meetings a week of nothing but WT Dogma-- now how long has he been on the net 2 yrs at the most reading a post here and there- so never get bent out of shape
reflect back on the fine technique wt used to train you__SMILE -
be calm -ask good questions, and present your facts
and if he has the right heart condition/ or an event in his life that
he as to deal with- all things you have stated will come back to him
i find that a person is only willing to say MAMA is wrong and i must get the "He!! Up Out O here" smile when the time is right
the worst thing that can be done to a person with the background such as friend is to turn him completely.
we really have golden opportunity by having friend here
the vast majority of jw defender are "Flunkies and Outcast"
rarely do we get real INSIDERS who know what they are talking about
most of the folks are guys who can't be appointed to carry the mikes in thier Hall- they are out of the LOOP and that is why you see such a high number of them coming here:
1. not being an Elder or MS
2 always claiming to be of the ANNOINTED
3. on a mission from god to save the lost jw here who are being attacked by the mean old apostates
these are the types of guys i see that are usually the strongest wt defenders- like i said IN THIER HALLS THEY ARE FLUNKIES
here on the net THEY GET MUCH RESPECT folks even answer back to thier post
yet in thier hall they merely stand around the Information board looking lost
so don't feel you need to grab my man in the collar and shake him - while telling him:
"Man can't you see they are Hoodwinking and Bamboozling YOU"
it don't work to well in most cases- always remember WT has caught more members with Honey than Vineagar- why not try it out on them
just my 2
JT
TINA SAYS:
At the end of the day the issue boils down to the powerless(victims) and the powerful(elders,org.men)
######
you have summed it up very nicely , while Friend's Legal/Technical positions would and does work very well in the courtroom.
sorta like Clinton "What is "IS"---- What is "SEX" legal jargon
in the real lives of JW who live in total fear of WHAT THEY CAN AND CAN'T DO it is amazing
when you consider the types of questions that the Service Desk and the Writing Dept recieves from persons who have been JW for 10-40 yrs they still show they have developed no ablity whatsoever to make a decsions without cking to see if THE SOCIETY APPROVES IT
and that really is the bottom line
where we constantly see grown men and women who must ask is it OK FOR ME TO FART NOW
they are totally dependent on the org for each breathe they take
as Ray wrote in his book the org has over the years developed literally volumes and volumes of RULES AND POLICIES.
I RECALL giving a talk in which the point was made in the outline that the Pharisees had taken something like one law "not to work on the sabbath" and they had increased it to like 17 additional rules/policies/procedures
all manmade of course and that is the way wt does all the time
the most interesting dept at bethel in my view is the Service Dept
where rules/policies/procedures are created and enforced with the Penlty of Death almost
all manmade of course , but presented to the rank and file and esp the elders as FOOD FROM GOD himself
and of course we all know how food from god is to be viewed
so while Friend plays around with legal/technical arguments
most of use here fully understand that it is due to such a mindset as his is why the WT is in the trouble it is in right now
At one time i use to Pride myself on the same ability of quoting page and paragraph like friend does-
but i begin to clearly see that for a religion that operates like a Corporation something is seriously wrong
when the Home Office of a large corporation decides to shutdown a plant in Littletown, Miss- the guy in accounting who put the numbers together to show that we can make more money by moving to Mexico does not see faces, the children, the community, the school , the Jr socker team, etc that will be affected by this
all he knows is it will increase the value of the stock
while being a business man i understand the need at time to make hard decsions,
but i have seen to many decsions made with little thought to how folks lives will be affect- if a choice has to be made between you and the company- you lose-
now that may be ok for a corporation, but when a religion operates on the same rules that is sad
allow me to share with you a personal exp-
there was an older bro an elder who was like a father to me when i was in bethel , he lived up in The Bronx. this guy had went to jail back in the late60's/early 70's for not going overseas to the war.
well a few yrs ago i got a call from him in tears- he had just gotten his LATEST FOOD FROM GOD it dealt with Alterantive Service
here the wt stated that the reason these guys like him went to jail was due to them having "VERY STRICT CONSCIENCES" where in fact "SOME" bro felt there was nothing unscriptural about working at the hopital instead of going to war-
and that is What we call in the Black commuity "A BlackA$$ Lie"
he explained to me that when he got his draft letter him and his mama went to the elders to see what he should do.
and they directed him straight to the bound vols which clearly stated that any real spiritual mature man would go to jail and take it like a man- so since the co was coming soon the elders told him them would ask the co to see if there was any new info on the matter
the co came and call the Service dept and asked ANY NEW LIGHT
and co was directed to the same bound vols
so they told him he could not take the hospital job and if he did he would be deleted as a MS and considered no longer a jw- yes he would be shafted is what they told him
so he like 1000's of other young men went off to prison cause to do otherwise would have been to go against the VERY WILL OF GOD HIMSELF..
I was told by a number of persons who should know that while he was in prison he was repeatedly raped as a young man- now i have never asked him about it and i never will, but the persons who told me they should know-
he can out of prison as a felon- it was very hard to get work- mainly due to it was viewed as so unpatriotic by many folks
so he got shafted again when it came to employment opportunities
and now to be told that the reason you went to jail was because YOUR CONSCIENCE WAS TOO STRICT, YOU MUST BE JOKING
yet when these clowns voted on this matter they saw no face, wife, child, mother or father all they saw was we need to make sure the org is looking good and smelling good
he just broke down and cried and he just kept saying
THAT WAS NOT HOW IT WAS, THAT WAS NOT HOW IT WAS-
today he is no longer an elder rarely attends meeting and is a emotionally BROKEN MAN
so when i see guys like Friend come up here on this board and others and try to paint an Intellectual/technical/legal picture I TRULY FEEL SORRY FOR HIM
being that 99% of us here are either jw or xjw we all know the type of MINDSETS that are found thruout this organization
jw operate on both WRITTEN AND UNWRITTEN RULES and for someone to paint a picture otherwise is simply to being dishonest WITH THEMSELVES
AND THAT IS SO SAD
i have seen some JW come here and say "The GB's and the bro at bethel go thru much PAIN in the decisions that they make"
to that i laugh-
it they really felt for the rank and file they would be honest and tell them
NO WE DON'T SPEAK FOR GOD like we have convinced you that we do and have you jumping thru all these hoops that we have setup for you
just my 2
JT
SixofNine

yes the "KING HAS NO CLOTHES ON AND LITTLE SHORT WILLY WILLY TO BOOT"
SMILE
...true, but since these kings do not defile themselves with women, it (size) is of no real importance, in spite of what Ezekiel 23:20 says.
Friend

Focus
Just how logical a thinker are you, anyway?
Regarding a subject of serious crime and based upon the Society’s writings (w73 11/15 703-4 Questions from Readers), you asserted:
A JW must not involve judicial authorities against a fellow-JW - if the matter is serious enough, and the JW is unrepentant, he/she will be disfellowshiped and then one will not be taking a "Christian" to court if one proceeds. But a JW must not act until the disfellowshiping happens, as the above article makes clear.
Based upon the Society’s writings, if a JW “must not” involve secular judicial authorities against a fellow-JW for serious crime then you are saying that that is Society policy! To contend otherwise is nonsensical. For you to later say that the Society has no policy against JWs reporting a murder (yes, murder!) that they happen to witness (that’s how they know its, yes, murder, stupid!) committed by another JW completely refutes your sweeping assertion!
It just doesn’t get any simpler than that, Focus! If you want to write another ten thousand words saying otherwise, please, by all means, feel free to do so. But that will not change any facts.
Also, since the assertion in question was yours (as opposed to mine, stupid!), and since it regarded a prohibition (i.e., “must not”) then whether the Society has ever required Witnesses (elders or not) to report a crime is irrelevant to your assertion, which assertion of yours was the subject of my critic. Again, I muse, just how sound a thinker are you to not see this!
Again, if you want to write a secondary ten thousand words contending otherwise, please, feel free to do so. But it will not change any facts.
This elements of sound thinking here are so basic that it defies the senses that you are unable to comprehend your error, which error only provides cannon fodder for Watchtower PR spinster masters! Since that is apparently what you want, then I suggest you go right on with your nonsensical writing! Sheesh! What an idiot you are! And, BTW, calling a fool an idiot is not ad hominem if it true and relevant; and in your case it is both!
Friend

PEDOPHILES are to WTS as flies are to honey?

Share this