How I recently handled JWs at my door

by Christian guy 310 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe

    Christian guy I liked your arguments. I particularly like your discussion of what the good news of the kingdom is which is never explaine d in Matt 24. I've talked about this in another thread. That the JWs then have to go all over the Bible picking out verses about lions and lambs and people building houses etc., all taken out of context.

    Do yourself a favour and end this thread before it becomes another atheist versus believers thread. They are endless, very boring and the work you have done here in the op will be devalued.

  • J. Hofer
    J. Hofer

    this reminds me of the divine plan of the ages

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    jgnat-what a lovely song. I like Dolly Parton, but don't listen to much other country music, I have never heard of Helen Reddy. My JW friend, she still speaks to me while I am df'd, stuck three words on my fridge. STRONG OPTIMISTIC DECSIVE. She said these words summed me up in her mind. This song reminded me of what is posted on my fridge, and the dear sister that put it there.

    Thank you jgnat love kate xx

  • Christian guy
    Christian guy

    An argument could be made that if God wanted to really blow us away and wow us, He could have made the number correlations exact,

    Actually it appears that he did make some of them exact. As I pointed out, " The moon and the sun's most commonly published diameter measurements in miles are 2,160 and 864,000 respectively which equals a ratio of exactly 400.00."

    And I wrote that, " according to the World Almanac and many other reference works, 'our sun is 400,000 times as bright as the full moon.' Amazingly, this brightness magnitude ratio of four hundred thousand appears to be an exact, or virtually exact, number."

    I believe God provides all who are willing to serve him with enough evidence of his existence to give them the faith they need to do so. I also believe that God will never provide someone who is unwilling to serve him with so much evidence of his existence that they cannot choose to deny his existence.

    God could have certainly designed every one of these 400s to be an exact number. But then we would all be forced to acknowledge his existence and our obligation to serve him right now. But that would defeat God's own stated purpose. For the Bible tells us that God has chosen to save that time, a time when "every knee will bend" to him, for Judgment Day.

  • cofty
    cofty

    CG - I have read your post. I really find it very unconvincing. It's just too easy to find numerical patterns wherever we look for them.

    We descend from a long line of pattern-seeking ancestors.

    Just as an example you make the point that the moon's diameter is 400 times smaller than the sun. So what? The moon is three dimensional and is thousands of times smaller than the sun. It is all just so contrived.

    You find the number 400 to be significant for some reason and then throw in 4 and 40 because they are "abbreviated forms of that number ". I must have missed that day in school.

    Apart from anything else Jesus specified what the signs in sun moon and stars would be. They had nothing to do with measuring dimensions.

    If god wanted to leave a sign that he was the creator there are so many ways he could have done it without such esoteric mental gymnastics.

    Confusingly you have quoted a lot of information that you then go on to reject. Perhaps you could state succinctly what points you do find compelling.

  • J. Hofer
    J. Hofer

    what i don't quite get as of now is how a ratio of exactly 400 proves that a single personal god of the christian flavor exists.

  • Xanthippe
    Xanthippe

    Ok have it your way, I'm not staying around for the next ten pages. Do you really think you can persuade atheists to believe in God? You remind me of the woman I met at work who told me she was going to email Ricahrd Dawkins because she was sure she could make him see that he was wrong.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Do you really think you can persuade atheists to believe in God?

    That would actually be very simple. Just present some evidence. Playing numerology isn't going to do it.

  • Christian guy
    Christian guy

    Cofty,

    It's just too easy to find numerical patterns wherever we look for them.

    I didn't find them. They were pointed out to me by several different atheistic astronomers, all writing different articles about solar eclipses. Read some of these articles for yourself. They all use phrases like "in a coincidence unmatched in the solar system" and "in a serendipitous relationship unlike any other in nature" our earth just happens to have a sun exactly 400 times the size of our moon and also about 400 times as far away.

    Just as an example you make the point that the moon's diameter is 400 times smaller than the sun. So what?

    Maybe you should ask all the astronomers who write all those articles about solar eclipses that question.

    Apart from anything else Jesus specified what the signs in sun moon and stars would be.

    I guess I must have missed that part of the Bible.

    you have quoted a lot of information that you then go on to reject. Perhaps you could state succinctly what points you do find compelling.

    The reason I referenced Knight and Butlers book, Who Built The Moon?, is not because I found all of their arguments that the moon must have been inteligently designed to be convincing. I referenced their book to show that even some atheists believe that the moon must have been inteligently designed, due mainly to the 400s which all astronomers admit appear readily to their minds every time they see a solar eclipse. Those are the same points that I find most compelleng. 400 X diameter + 400 X distance produces solar elipses. Which appear on average over any one spot on earth "about every 400 years." That along with the sun and full moon's relative brightness, a virtually exact 400,000 figure. These things taken together with the Bible's frequently using the numbers 4, 40 and 400 in symbolic reference to Christ. .... And Bible chronology indicating that exactly 4,000 years passed between Adam and Christ.

  • Christian guy
    Christian guy

    My posting limit has been reached for the day.

    Xan, thanks for the advise. I assure you I will soon follow it.

    I really didn't think I would convince any atheists of God's existence with my meager posts here. I only hoped to plant some seeds. Maybe God will make them grow.

    Giordano, They also left open the possibility that space aliens might have built our moon. But not God!

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