need your advice again, please

by outsmartthesystem 65 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  jamiebowers

  Jamie Bowers:

  "The first thing I think you should do is consult a very good divorce and child custody attorney who is either willing to learn about or able to handle jw issues just to have her/him at the ready in case the worst happens. Second, start exposing your kids to crirical thinking skills and the real world NOW! Third, reiterate to your wife how her social standing will be ruined if/when you're df'd and ask her to compare you being shunned with how her father was treated by her grandfather."

  OutsmarttheSystem:

  I've considered that. I haven't brought myself to do it yet because mentally, I fell like once I've done that.....I've officially thrown in the towel. I've just ordered "Teach Your Children How to Think". I will reiterate how her social life will change.....but she won't care. She is a different kind of person. She has never had many friends because she wears her emotions on her sleeve and gives it to you straight up. There is no sugar coating with her. If she believes in something.....she'll go after it - detractors be damned. She doesn't care what people think. So her response to me when I tell her about the potential change in her social life will be "I don't care. If I were in your shoes and I thought MY religion was wrong.....I'd have been knocking on the door of Bethel a long time ago."

  Think of it this way...buying a home security system doesn't mean you're resigned to the fact that your house is going to be burgalarized. Using birth control doesn't mean you're never going to have children. These things are protections, just as consulting an attorney is. If she doesn't care about what her social life would be like or how people view her if you are df'd, then all the better for you. You being df'd for having questions may be the only thing that will help her see the truth about the "truth".
• 

  flipper

  OUTSMARTTHESYSTEM- Having read ALL of your initial thread , yet I didn't read everyone elses comments - here's my take.

  It appears your wife is deeply mind controlled to the point of being fearful and guilt ridden to listen to ANYTHING negative you say about the WT society's teachings. Not only that- she's committed her mind to listen and favor only the elders, WT society, or their reps advice over yours. When she tells you she'll only listen to your point of view if you talk with the elders- don't believe her- she still won't listen to your point of view. She'll listen to what the elders TELL her what her point of view should be. And that will be to " protect " your children spiritually from their dad's " apostate leanings ".

  Instead of trying to reach your wife ( which in her mind controlled state will just annoy her and cause more stress for you ) I would try staying close to your children and doing things in a fun way with them. Take an interest in taking them to the park, bike rides, go for a walk, the zoo to see animals, swimming, ANYTHING that they enjoy doing outside of JW interests away from the kingdom hall. You certainly can try to incorporate non-Witness children to them as friends and introduce your kids to some if you know their non-Witness parents- but be advised this may not go over well with your wife. Only you know how much your JW wife will tolerate and how much she can be pushed regarding her set beliefs.

  Bottom line is you don't want to push it too hard where your JW wife will turn your kids against you forever. Been there, done that bro. My adult JW daughters haven't done anything socially with me for 9 years now. I'm lucky that my adult son exited the Witnesses , but please realize you are in a very tense, delicate situation while still living with this JW wife. Choose your words carefully, wisely or you may end up sleeping on the couch or by yourself without access to your young children except through visitation. From one that knows . Good luck to you
• 

  man oh man

  At least if you were DF then this will make it harder for your kids to get batptized as they will have to choose between their dad and org. They will also see you are a good person without the org. They should also see the love you have for your wife. If your wife leaves you this will make it easier to teach your kids how to think. The one crack I have found with my wife is the child abuse scandall. Because of this she at least now thinks something is wrong in God's organization and this is a start at least for me. Wish you the best friend!
• 

  Black Sheep

  But how do I do that? Any thought provoking question I ask is met with the same answer. "if YOU want to know the answer then YOU look it up. I don't need to because I know I have the truth."

  You think it's a thought provoking question .... she treats it as a thought stopping question.

  Shut up. Don't start anything. Wait for her to make a shonky statement, then ask her to back it up, show it to you from a magazine, Bible, dictionary, something she trusts. If you pick on everything she gets wrong you''ll just be a pain in the arse and by the time she does give you the opportunity to ask an important question she'll be immunised (if she isn't already), so take it easy, and when you do ask a question make it one that is important to HER .............. NOT YOU........ and be loving ....... not antagonistc.

  I never said it would be easy
• 

  GrandmaJones

  Okay, I guess since you keep asking, I won't pull my punches. And, it' s my opinion, no more, BUT....why are you continuing to pussyfoot around this issue? Why don't you make a decision and act on it? What is WRONG with saying to her that you have had enough of this, you won't torment her with it BUT you will not permit her to bring up your children in a crazy cult. Even preschoolers are easily reasoned with. Don' t you feel any obligation to ensure, absolutely ensure that your kids remain free of this? Isn't that the obligation of a parent? If she wanted to take them to a malaria infested swamp, would you continue to try and be reasonable? Or, would you say, hey, these are my kids too and they are staying home! Okay, you want to save your wife, that's great, but SHE DOESN'T WANT TO BE SAVED!!!! Tell her to get a job, for god's sake! Tell your children the truth. You are keeping the peace at all cost, and it is YOU keeping it. You know son, it is like it is. If you deal with it, so will everyone. You can love her, but that works both ways. You keep playing around with this a couple more years and you'll be crying later that your kid's lives were ruined by the Watchtower. No, you will have LET them be ruined by it without a fight. Your wife is running this show up to this point, and you're letting her hurt you with her words. Put your pants back on and look her in the eye. Why isn't she worrying about how she'll make it without you? In other words, stare her down...
• 

  Scott77

  "I won't answer that. I don't owe you anything. You won't talk to the elders and you won't send a letter to Bethel so it is clear that you know you are wrong and are only trying to ruin my faith...my oldest child's head isn't working either because she has been turned into a little informant. My 5 year old is being turned into a JW psycho...My kids are being taught to worship the organization and disregard their father.".

  outsmartthesystem

  This is the very reason why marrying a Jehovah's Witnesses can be a disaster for some. I hope the many advises here prove to be helpful for you. Good luck dude.

  Scott77
• 

  outsmartthesystem

  "When she tells you she'll only listen to your point of view if you talk with the elders- don't believe her- she still won't listen to your point of view. She'll listen to what the elders TELL her what her point of view should be. And that will be to " protect " your children spiritually from their dad's " apostate leanings ".

  Flipper - I think you're right.

  'Instead of trying to reach your wife ( which in her mind controlled state will just annoy her and cause more stress for you ) I would try staying close to your children and doing things in a fun way with them. Take an interest in taking them to the park, bike rides, go for a walk, the zoo to see animals, swimming, ANYTHING that they enjoy doing outside of JW interests away from the kingdom hall'

  I am trying to do that. But here's the catch. My wife doesn't want me doing any of this WITHOUT her. I think in her mind....she knows I'd be developing a tight bond with them. So whenever I want to do anything with the kids, she'll play the "hurt" card and say "why are you trying to exclude me?" We had a talk about 2 weeks ago and I told her that we should both do things separately with the kids. That SOME one on one bonding time should be encouraged. That didn't go over real well but she couldn't say no.

  'You certainly can try to incorporate non-Witness children to them as friends and introduce your kids to some if you know their non-Witness parents- but be advised this may not go over well with your wife. Only you know how much your JW wife will tolerate and how much she can be pushed regarding her set beliefs'

  To tell you the truth.....I am considering putting my foot down and insisting that the children have friends outside the kingdom hall too. If she freaks out.....tough beans. I don't prevent them from having witness friends. She has no right to prevent them from having friends outside the kingdom hall either.

  "Bottom line is you don't want to push it too hard where your JW wife will turn your kids against you forever. Been there, done that bro. "

  I am just wondering if this is THE time to do something. If I wait 5 years....and my kids are older and more indoctrinated.....it will be easy for her to turn them against me. If I pull the plug now......they're young enough to be reached. Do you really think she could/would win full custody? I am a good dad. I have a lot of people in my industry and my community that would have my back. You really think they might give her FULL custody? What would she have against me in order to get such a result?
• 

  outsmartthesystem

  "At least if you were DF then this will make it harder for your kids to get batptized as they will have to choose between their dad and org. They will also see you are a good person without the org. They should also see the love you have for your wife. "

  I know it is a longshot......but that's what I was hoping for. Probably not realistic though.

  "The one crack I have found with my wife is the child abuse scandall. Because of this she at least now thinks something is wrong in God's organization and this is a start at least for me."

  Thus far, I have found NOTHING that bothers her. Not even this. EVERYTHING that happens is part of Jehovah's plan. Even horrible things. We are measly humans and we cannot understand God's justice.

  "Shut up. Don't start anything. Wait for her to make a shonky statement, then ask her to back it up, show it to you from a magazine, Bible, dictionary, something she trusts. If you pick on everything she gets wrong you''ll just be a pain in the arse and by the time she does give you the opportunity to ask an important question she'll be immunised (if she isn't already), so take it easy, and when you do ask a question make it one that is important to HER .............. NOT YOU........ and be loving ....... not antagonistc."

  I am trying. This is SO hard
• 

  leavingwt

  At this particular moment, you may need to simply take a break from thinking about all of this. You'll drive yourself crazy.
• 

  dreamgolfer

  Hey Bro,

  I am really with you - but like the great advice from Ynott and others, take it slow - and nurture the relationship with your kids, what else will you have?

  Your wife will have to come along after her eyes are opened- I am in the same boat, so to speak, I had to SLOW DOWN and it has worked in our marriage, i am taking my time.

  The kids, get involved with the PTA, school projects - and road trips. Develope their critical thinking so when they get to be Middle Schoolers they can start analyzing this CULT for themselves, - they will come to the same answers you have sooner than you think.

  Remember keep your friends close, and enemies CLOSER!

  Love you buddy!

  Good luck and you can do it