by rory-ks 63 Replies latest jw friends
Y'know what I'd REALLY like to see...
A JW with a good, close, personal friend who's an ace LAWYER...
Walk into a judicial committee with the lawyer in tow....
Something tells me that the presence of the lawyer would put a REAL damper on the situation!!!
And a Lawyer who would come up with a FANTASTIC counter-argument to that "you can't be present because we're exercising our right to our 'religious-freedom-to-disfellowship-people-and-break-up-their-families'..." crap...!!!
Zid:
Elders are instructed to suspend the meeting and call the branch if someone threatens legal actions during the Judicial Hearing
Translation: Call mommy because we know that if lawyers get involved you're in over your head. And do NOT put anything in writing that may come back to bite us. That's why we want you to CALL. Never write unless it's about the field ministry or something un-important.
Sheee-yite...
That's the BEST reason to show up with a lawyer, that I've EVER heard!!!
00DAD, and Ziddina, your open and candid expressions are really appreciated. That information on how to respond over the recording ruling is priceless, 00DAD. I won't be attempting any recording, but I might even use some of it as a bluff anyway because some of those phrases are just begging to be said out loud!
My wife is a born and bred Witness, it is true. She will be torn, but she is still "organisation first" - I can't deny that. However, my family life will survive this. We have two girls who we love very much, and we share ideals which lie outside the confines of the Society. Our marriage will not be jeopardised by this, though it will no doubt be put through the wringer. I also believe that the girls can survive this. Yes, they will have the JW ethic from their Mum, and when they attend meetings, but I believe it will be counter-ballanced by my non-attendance, (and the waves that will be made from this minor furore).
I am in a good, strong, and peaceful place about all this. What I have now is better than what I had as a Witness. I have come to realise that trying to fight the organisation might be futile, but if I view this as a way to speak to individual men about the injustices and inconsistencies, it might just be enough to shake their (non-existent) foundations. They have to go through the process, too. I don't believe it is easy for them having to sit down with a man they have known for a fifth of a century. They are going to have to think about the collateral damage, too. This is a policy that they have agreed to be a part of, and they are damn well going to have to suck it up and see it through. Each of those men is going to have to make the decision to expel me from the congregation, because I am not going to disassociate myself. But I am also not going to spend my life gagged, or furtively looking over my shoulder.
Last night's meeting went much as imagined. This was the "second admonition", and the next stage will be a judicial hearing.
They used 2 John 10, 11 "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works," to which I was able to point out that although the Society goes to great lengths to argue that John deliberately used the simple expression (khairo) for "greeting" rather than a word which meant a much warmer greeting (aspazomai) - proving that apostates should be unequivocally shunned - Luke 1:28, 19 shows us that the two words were interchangeable. In connection with that, I also took the opportunity to ask why the Society should choose to interpret the phrase "stop associating with," at 2 Thessalonians 3:14 differently from the phrase "quit mixing in company with," at 1 Corinthians 5:11, when Paul uses exactly the same Greek phrase.
As was expected, there is no answer to these questions except, "maybe the understanding of these verses will change...how would you feel if you were on the outside looking in etc etc." I said I could not believe that the first century Christians had a policy which imitated the religion that they had left behind. It was Pharisees who threw people out of the synagogue, and shunned them - why would the Christians go on and do the same thing? Again, the only answer to that is to toe the party line and explain the need to protect the congregation.
So, there we are.
"If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching"
And which teaching was John talking about here? The latest 'generation' teaching of JWs perhaps? Or the JW teaching of not recording judicial proceedings?
rory-ks: They used 2 John 10, 11
So basically, they threatened you with being disfellowshipped. Such loving shepherds.
I'm sorry you're going through this, but sadly this is what the organization really is. All that stuff about "Brotherly Love", "Serving shoulder to shoulder" and "We would die for our Brothers" is just a bunch of hype to attract new recruits.
All because you dared to be "a member of the congregation blogging their radically altered spiritual viewpoint, without categorically attacking the religion itself."
What happened to:
Uhm, Rory-KS...
I know that you've stated,
"My wife is a born and bred Witness, it is true. She will be torn, but she is still "organisation first" - I can't deny that. However, my family life will survive this. We have two girls who we love very much, and we share ideals which lie outside the confines of the Society. Our marriage will not be jeopardised by this, though it will no doubt be put through the wringer. I also believe that the girls can survive this. Yes, they will have the JW ethic from their Mum, and when they attend meetings, but I believe it will be counter-ballanced by my non-attendance, (and the waves that will be made from this minor furor). "
Buuuut......
THIS is the part that REALLY worries me....
".... She will be torn, but she is still "organisation first" ..."
JUST in case....
You might want to have a sincere discussion with your wife about what is going on, and how it may affect your marriage and your children. The Watchtower Corporation's edicts WILL cause extreme stress within your marriage; and a good military "campaign" starts out by being prepared...
Having said that, please look at the threads I linked in this thread, on the topic of "getting your family out"...
After all, since YOU'VE spotted the problems within the organization, do you really want your children raised with that dogma hanging over their heards???
PLEASE prepare for the possibility of problems with your marriage. One of the BEST means I've heard of, is to have a "Family Bible Study" in which THE BIBLE AND ONLY THE BIBLE is studied...
ABSOLUTELY NO Watchtower literature is included...
Hope this helps...
Zid
Ziddy, the magical Dragon wrote, "One of the BEST means I've heard of, is to have a "Family Bible Study" in which THE BIBLE AND ONLY THE BIBLE is studied ... ABSOLUTELY NO Watchtower literature is included..."
Last night I read the book of Matthew chapters 1-7 for the first time in years. It was also the first time I read that much of the Bible in one sitting since I've been out, almost three years now.
It's an interesting experience to read/re-read the scriptures without being Under-the-Influence of WT Dogma. A lot of things that I'd be taught simply aren't provable from just the scriptures themselves. Also, while Jesus is attributed as saying a lot of really good things like "treat others as you'd like to be treated" he also said some pretty weird stuff too.
It's a new experience.
"Ziddy, the magical Dragon..."
Awww.....
