Latest Watchtower page 30... They have some nerve to put this!

by TimothyT 100 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  djeggnog: "Jesus stated at John 3:18, you have been "judged already.""

  I realize you were going off-topic with your statement, but I'll beg Timmy's patience while I answer the question you're trying to ask. Indeed, it's reasonable that you would have a hard time fitting those words of John with what Watchtower teaches. You are correct to note that Watchtower ignores that statement of Jesus when they changed their interpretation of Jesus' illustration in Matt. 25 to say that the separating of the sheep and goats has not yet begun. The WT CD doesn't use John 3:18 in connection with condemning modern "disfellowshipped" persons or "apostates" as being "judged already" for having committed the "unforgivable sin." Going back to the 1960s on the WT CD they haven't used that verse to condemn anyone living during the past century. After all, it was stated when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus almost 2000 years ago. It must pain you terribly to realize that Watchtower only considers such condemnation upon those that were alive at the time of Christ to have witnessed his miracles and resurrection as being adversely "judged already." Watchtower is currently more "liberal" in their interpretation of what is "unforgivable sin" and particularly avoid that verse in John since it smacks of predestination and the chapter talks too much about salvation and being born again for Watchtower's liking. Certainly it must be hard for you to keep up with "progressive" "new light" regarding judgment of the sheep and the goats. I'll share this one WT quote with you that you may pick-and-choose to ignore...

  *** w95 10/15 p. 23 par. 26 How Will You Stand Before the Judgment Seat? ***
  26 Understanding the parable of the sheep and the goats in this way indicates that the rendering of judgment on the sheep and the goats is future. It will take place after “the tribulation” mentioned at Matthew 24:29, 30 breaks out and the Son of man ‘arrives in his glory.’ (Compare Mark 13:24-26.) Then, with the entire wicked system at its end, Jesus will hold court and render and execute judgment.—John 5:30; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10.

  Even though they are directly stating that the judgment of the goats has not begun, I wouldn't be surprised if they come around later to say, "likely Jesus means that anyone that posts on Internet forums is a goat and guilty of the unforgivable sin". As you stated, any words of Jesus that they flip-flop on were just "hyperbole", right? You'll probably pick-and-choose around that WT instruction. But that's fine with both Simon and me if you continue posting. You're welcome.

  FYI djeggnog, you should remove the reference to Matt. 25 from your copy of Reasoning p. 344 par. 3. That's old light since WT officially teaches that the separating work isn't taking place yet. It would be pretty embarassing for you to accidently bring up that old light in field service or in a talk.

  If you have any other questions or concerns about Watchtower flip-flops, you could start your own thread about it. Otherwise the search feature on JWN isn't great, but many topics have been posted that may help to clarify any of your questions concerning "new light".
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  djeggnog: "I've been one of Jehovah's Witnesses much longer than the release of the IBM PC, even before IBM released the MT/ST, during the days when the mainframe ruled"

  Please note rule #10. You are posting off-topic again.

  "@BillyEB, you've got another think coming."

  Yes, I do have another think coming. But again, that would be off-topic.

  "I felt I should respond to this statement of yours, but you are off-topic."

  Telling me that I'm off-topic is off-topic. After all, in the OP Timmy asked how the GB could improve in their teaching and I responded that they should print their lies in disappearing ink.
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  djeggnog: "I know you have difficulty comprehending what I say to you here, but in Jehovah's organization, there are no laws."

  Wait, what?

  @Timmy, Is it okay if I go off-topic on djeggnog's off-topic statement here?

  There are no laws in Jehovah's organization? Really djeggnog?
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  I see that you're still unable to provide even one example of where Jesus rebuked someone for not properly observing the sabbath.

  djeggnog: "I have given short shrift to your request.

  djeggnog, I really don't care whether you have a short shrift or a long shrift! But please keep that thing away from my request! That's both off-topic, disgusting, and something you shouldn't be proud of. That off-color, off-topic statement is just a red herring concealing the fact that you know nothing about what Jesus taught about the sabbath.

  SHAME ON YOU!
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  TimothyT

  Go for it Billy! :)
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  @djeggnog,

  If "in Jehovah's organization, there are no laws", why does Watchtower have an army of lawyers in a huge legal department? Why are there judicial committees with secret textbooks filled with... laws.

  But I can inform you that Watchtower Corporation certainly doesn't have the law of love. That's certainly one law that they have given "short shrift".
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  MrDarkKnight

  Interesting thread. DJeggnog is definitetly not part of the JW establishment, because if he was he would not be posting on this board. He displays an inaccurate knowledge of JW teachings, and lacks the finesse required to be of the JW leadership. I am not sure of his purpose for posting, he is not drawing people as Christ did, but is alienating them.

  I find him entertaining, but his commentary pointless.
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  Billy the Ex-Bethelite

  As long as Timmy has given me license to address djeggnogs other "hit-and-run" off-topic questions, let's go back to the initial derailing by djeggnog:

  Me: On the other hand, WT adds rules that makes the law of Christ far more burdensome. Not only is their blood policy unscriptural, turning an old dietary restriction that was never punished with death into a JW medical law that has resulted in the untimely deaths of thousands of people and children.

  djeggnog: What rules have Jehovah's Witnesses added that in your opinion has made the law of the Christ "more burdensome"? If you are referring to God's command to "abstain ... from blood," are you suggesting that you don't consider this command to be a part of the law of the Christ? If not, why not?

  "Law of Christ"? and you're also saying there are no laws? You're arguing with yourself. In Acts 15 the apostles and elders didn't even say their "law" on blood was from God, they said it was from "holy spirit and we ourselves". They made no pretense that their statements were somehow binding forever. The ellipsis in your quote leaves out something important: (Acts 15:29) 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood. . ." This decision in 49CE was also to abstain from things sacrificed to idols. A very short time later, in 55 CE in Paul's letter, 1Cor. 10:25-30, he explains that eating meat sacrificed to idols was a personal decision, a conscience matter. Just as the command to abstain from things sacrificed to idols was done away with, the command to abstain from blood would become a personal decision. There is your answer djeggnog, right from the Bible itself. One doesn't need the absurd flip-flops from WT on blood fractions to understand that the Bible doesn't prohibit life-saving medical treatment.

  Me: Their disfellowshipping procedure is a prime example of WTs building thousands of legalistic and hypocritical laws on top of an unscriptural foundation. Perhaps it's their ultimate accomplishment in out-phariseeing the Pharisees.

  djeggnog: Are you comparing disfellowshipping as practiced by Jehovah's Witnesses with expulsions froom the synagogue of the Jews by the Pharisees? (See John 9:22)

  You can use that example, it's a start to show that the JW practice is not based on anything in the Mosaic Law. WT condemns the Jews custom of not speaking the name of their God, yet they would embrace unscriptural Jewish customs like expusion. It is a classic example of how hypocrites would try to silence anyone that would criticize them. Watchtower out-pharisees the hypocritical practice of expulsion by carrying out their judicial trials. Even the account in John 9 shows the Pharisees had the decency to conduct an open trial. In ancient Israel, judicial cases were heard in the city gate. The account of the Corinthian was known publicly and wasn't handled anything like the absurd JW procedures of "judicial committees" carrying out their injustices in secret. WT condemns the unjust trial of Jesus that was done secretly at night, yet that is the exact type of injustice that is standard operating procedure in every kingdom hall.

  WT's entire "don't talk to apostates" directly contradicts the example Jesus set in speaking to Satan. Jesus never had to fear Satan. Yet JWs cower and run away from "apostates", because it's the exJWs that have the truth that WT is so afraid of.
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  djeggnog

  @Billy the Ex-Bethelite:

  It's has now become apparent to me that you do not care that your conduct here may be turning some people off, and could possibly be causing some JWN members to be reluctant about posting here for fear you are going to derail their threads as you and @Mary did this one. I don't know how often you derail people's threads to troll people, but I didn't join this thread to have you derail it and I cannot in good conscience take anything you say seriously. I think that messaging style is rather bizarre, that it could lead to causing irreversible damage to the reputation of this website, and make JWN appear to be an unwelcome place for members, lurkers, and non-member/lurkers that might have been reading the threads and thinking about joining JWN to have civil discussions with others.

  I don't know if you are currently suffering from a psychosis of some kind, but I don't want to be responsible in any way for causing a psychotic break. Your behavior in this thread has demonstrated to me that you aren't straightforward and after reading your last six messages of yours, I've concluded that I might not have been exchanging messages with a sane person.

  You continue to ignore the posting guidelines for this forum and although you have gone as far as to ask the OP for permission to derail his thread, I don't believe the OP (@TimothyT) has been given the authority to permit anyone to violate any of the guidelines here. Although the OP may wish to keep this thread alive, I'm not comfortable with being used this way so that you might continue derailing someone else's thread (for if you've done that in this thread, there's no reason to believe that you won't do the same thing to someone else's thread), so I'm going to withdraw from this thread.

  @djeggnog
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  TimothyT

  eggnog: This means that while you, @Mary and @TimothyT may have once aligned your beliefs with those held by Jehovah's Witnesses, it has always been possible that the three of you would abandon those beliefs for whatever reason and embrace other beliefs, which is fine. But why should Jehovah's Witnesses abandon their beliefs just because the three of you here on JWN, and others on here as well, may have abandoned them? It is your right to believe what you choose to believe and each one of Jehovah's Witnesses exercise their respective rights to believe what it is they choose to believe. Hehe... were we asking them to? I wasnt. People can believe what they want. What I would encourage them to do though is to study the scriptures properly, in context and just for once, do so without the help of the organisation, as they will see the scriptures as they were mant to be: pure and unadulterated truth.

  Billy: Timmy, since Jesus never had to keep flip-flopping and changing his teachings over the past 2000 years, the GB really should be honest about their "progressive" teachings as djeggnog has pointed out. They claim to be "guided" by God's spirit and "God's channel", yet when they're caught in a false prophecy, they say they're "imperfect men" with "new light." Well, rather than putting publication dates on their books, brochures, and magazines, Watchtower should put expiration dates on all their literature. Instead of putting out a "current" Watchtower with the date March 15, 2012, they should stamp "Expiration Date: 3/15/2013". I have to agree. How can they honestly say they represent God if they were wrong? I can just imagine an almost satyrical scene where Moses, Elijah, or even Jesus wanted to do something, it didnt work, then he went all red because of it and quickly had to make an excuse to cover over the situation. How embarassing. I just dont see the comparison made by the org saying that they are now the way to salvation. If you read the New Testament, its SOOOOO clear that the position of saviour was, is and will always be Jesus Christ alone!!! Its just so obvious and clear to me! How cant the JWs see this???

  MrDarkKnight: I would have thought that would make him the perfect part of the JW establishment!!! (He displays an inaccurate knowledge of JW teachings, and lacks the finesse required to be of the JW leadership. I am not sure of his purpose for posting, he is not drawing people as Christ did, but is alienating them. I find him entertaining, but his commentary pointless.) JW down to a T! :)

  eggnong: I don't know if you are currently suffering from a psychosis of some kind, but I don't want to be responsible in any way for causing a psychotic break. Your behavior in this thread has demonstrated to me that you aren't straightforward and after reading your last six messages of yours, I've concluded that I might not have been exchanging messages with a sane person. Have you ever heard the epression, said the pot to the kettle Eggnog? I must say I find your threads quite disturbing. You most certainly arnt straight forward thats for sure! :)

  eggnong: You continue to ignore the posting guidelines for this forum and although you have gone as far as to ask the OP for permission to derail his thread, I don't believe the OP (@TimothyT) has been given the authority to permit anyone to violate any of the guidelines here. Once again, as was the VERY point of my original post, the JWs are ALL ABOUT RULES! Eggnog, you have just confirmed this once again. As much as I respect the need for rules and guidelines, they are not the be all and end all of life. If someone has a valid point then they should make it. Who cares if its off topic. This is a JW forum and if people are talking about JWs then its on topic in my opinion. If this bothers you then start a new thread. I may do it for you actually. :) Owned!!!

  Timmy