Ding dong with 4 JWs this morning

by Qcmbr 50 Replies latest jw experiences

• 

  iCeltic

  Tornapart - time for some kind of strategy. If it's slowly killing you there will come a point where it'll explode. And that can look, to other JWs, that you've lost the plot.

  This is a great place for advice, I've had a fair bit myself. Your family come first, the sad fact is they are being deceived. If I were you I'd be looking for some advice from some of the more experienced ones here. Doing 'your bit' in the field service will only last so long until you just can't do it anymore. God forbid you actually get someone interested when you are out in the service.

  I know to some extent how you feel. Get help, please.
• 

  ThomasCovenant

  Tornapart.

  Don't get me wrong. It took me a few years to eventually get out. Assuming you've been reading here a while you'll see that most go for the 'slow fade' for the sake of family and friends.

  At first, when I was reading the old Society literature, the Reasoning book (lol what a beaut that book is) jwfacts.com, jwfiles.com, the old (now replaced) watchtower quotes site and wikipedia, then Crisis of Conscience, I felt incredible anger. This lasted for years. I eventually stopped my association overnight. I couldn't look my children or myself in the eye. Now I can.

  I can't offer any advice but hopefully others will see this thread and your posts and give some thoughts. It's still early US time.
• 

  tornapart

  Thanks everyone for your comments. Jwfacts. Yours is a great site and I've read a lot of it. Celtic, I think you are right! Thomas it's good to be able to share with others these awful feelings of anger (even at ourselves for having believed it!) that we all understand here.
• 

  iCeltic

  Sent you a pm 'Tornapart'
• 

  drewcoul

  I can't believe you were able to carry on such a long conversation with them.....Kudos to you!
• 

  cofty

  Hi Tornapart welcome to the forum its good to have your input.

  I think if somebody is trying to attract JWs towards something - like evangelical christianity - then a mild and loving approach is appropriate. If you are simply trying to wake them up to their own dissonance then tough love has its place.

  I hope you find a way forward for yourself soon. Best wishes and keep posting.
• 

  Qcmbr

  Apologies I took so long to get back - work!

  torn - chuffed that my post pushed you to post :)

  I think you have a very valid point, my wife pretty much said the same thing - that I should have been the bigger man and just walked away from the situation and I should have shown respect for their beliefs. I disagree and this is a small part of why.

  I have wracked my brains as to why I was so fooled by my religion and so inculcated in its myth that I literally couldn't see the lies and logical errors. How could I not see the totally bogus nature of my faith? I'd spent two years as a missionary arguing with plenty of christians, atheists and agnostics (and the odd pagan and muslim) and no one had caused me to truly question my faith. While the majority of the blame for my lack of self critique must lie at my feet (fear, mental laziness and pride) there is a significant other cause. In all my debates and discussions I was never directly challenged on the core weaknesses of mormonism. When it comes to pure theological ideas mormonism is pretty solid (it caters for everyone and explains the whys and hows pretty thoroughly) so it can go toe to toe with any religion and not get beaten however, no one ever pressed me on the real mormon weak points - weak points I only realised were there when I did my own deconstruction - I list a few below:

  1 - Joseph Smith's polyandry (NOT simple polygamy) and sex with (in our culture) minors - plus his use of 'revelations' to put them under pressure to aquiese.

  2 - Exactly how he 'translated' the plates ( head in a hat using a seer stone NOT using the 'official' urim and thummin)

  3 - Immorality - old testament God condones genocide, child murder, sexual slavery etc. new testament god allows criminals to escape justice while leaving victims without recompense and disempowers the victim from exacting punishment by simply forgiving sins.

  4 - Top church leaders get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars (while the sheeple are taught to do everything as a free lay clergy)

  5 - What treasure digging really was and why the 'gold plates' is therefore utterly dubious - JS's role in defrauding people from the age of ten onwards.

  6 - Masonry and its history (i.e. relatively modern) and the parallels with mormon temple rights.

  7 - Anachronisms and impossibilities in Book of Mormon (silk, wheeled chariots, horses, steel, hebrew bloodlines, swords and breastplates, 'reformed' Egyptian writing, reliance on a real biblical global flood etc.)

  I realised that in order to challenge me on those real issues someone would need to be very clued up on mormon history and would have to get their facts spot on. I wish someone had. I couldn't miss the opportunity to do something similar with those JWs. This may have been the first time they ever had a worldy person who knew so much of the weak points in their statements.

  Plus you're right I did bl**dy enjoy it - sorry :)
• 

  tornapart

  Well I can see where you're coming from Qcmbr (like the name btw) :) I guess the Mormons ae just as deluded as Jws. Maybe one of the sisters might do a bit of investigating but I hope it's not the younger one because she could leave and as you know it could tear the family apart. Is it worth it? For some it is. I prefer to just metally distance myself from it. It's difficult but I'm older and can cope. (I hope).

  Just let me know where you live so I don't knock on your door!! LOL ;)
• 

  peridotgreen

  Tornapart, welcome. You make some excellent points, of course. Yet so did those responding to your post.

  There are no easy answers. We must all do what feels right to us. While it's true that doorstep conversions are non-existant, seeds can be planted. As Witnesses, that's what we were doing. And that's what the Qcember was doing.

  There is still a bit of anger in me over how I was treated by what were supposed to be my loving sisters and brothers. The hypocricy was astounding. They could take my gifts and my money and then turn their backs on me after a few words by a man on a platform.

  There was a lot of pain and anguish on my part. I survived it, but it wasn't easy. No Witnesses ever come to my door but if they did - if I took a few cheap shots after what I've been through - would it really be so bad? And please don't tell me I knew the rules before I got myself disfellowshipped. There was a lot I didn't know until I got disfellowshipped, such as the complete and utter conditionality of the "love".
• 

  Quandry

  No, maybe the doorstep thrashing won't make the JWs run to the computer to do research, but sometimes things build up, and when a JW makes himself/herself handy, well....

  On the other hand, although the adults dug their heels in, perhaps the young person will think about the things said, and who knows about the adults-things heard can't be unheard, and yes, it is horribly dissilutioning to find out about the WTS, but I prefer truth to lies-and I don't know that there is a way to be "let down easy" with regard to a belief system such as the JWs.

  I remember once, many years ago, when I went to a door and the man countered my good morning with, "What's on you little mind?" At the time I thought he was rude, assuming that I had nothing of importance to impart to him. Now, thirty years later, I realise that indeed, my mind was small, only containing what the WT taught as truth. It has obviously been expanded since that time.

  tornapart...You seem to be in a tough situation. Perhaps you cannot escape the clutches of the WTS right now, but by all means, sit down and think of some ways that you can express your true self. Perhaps you've wanted to play a musical instrument..get one and take lessons. Education? You can take on-line classes that will enrich your mind without having to leave your home. Painting? Other hobbies?

  I don't know how old you are-I am sixty-in college (on line classes) and will graduate in one more year because I still have to work full time (no retirement saved-thanks WT) and can only take two classes at a time. But I will have my degree, althought there are so many other things that I'll never be able to get back from my more than thirty years a part of the WTS.

  I will say this...YOU CAN DO IT! Don't let them take every shred of "self" from you!! You deserve to live your own life.